88: From Classroom to Courseware: Navigating the Path to Higher Ed Instructional Design, Mariah Okoye, Instructional Designer at University of South Florida

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Hello, my name is Holly Owens
and welcome to Ed Up Ed Tech,

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the podcast that keeps you in
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tbj 23 Hello everyone and
welcome to another fantastic

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episode of Ed Up Ed Tech.
My name is Holly Owens and.

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My name is Nadia Johnson and
we're your host and we're really

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excited about the guests that we
have today.

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With us we have Mariah Okoye and
she is a learning designer at

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the University of South Florida.
Mariah, welcome to the show.

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Thank you for having me.
Welcome, Mariah.

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We're really excited to chat
with you because we know you

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have a lot to share when it
comes to learning design and you

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know your most recent transition
into the higher Ed space.

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But before we get into all that
stuff, we want to know more

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about your journey.
Tell us a little bit, how did

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you land where you are today?
Tell us about your educational

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journey.
Sure.

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And I'm excited to be here.
So yeah, I.

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I've shared before that my
journey started well, My journey

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in instructional design and as a
learning designer started before

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I even realized it was going in
this direction.

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So ever since I was a child that
was really engulfed in education

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and what was happening at
school, I always wanted to be

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there.
It was like my getaway from the

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realities of home.
And so I knew that I was going

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into education.
When I started my undergraduate

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degree, so everything was going
amazingly well in my undergrad

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degree or in my undergrad plan,
I guess you can say.

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And I went in as an elementary
education major.

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Come senior year when we have to
do the final internship it was.

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It was too much for my finances
to put to to put all of that

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attention to being in a full a
full year or semester of an

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internship without pay.
So I changed my degree at the

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very end to educational studies.
But I still went into education.

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I still taught.
I and I absolutely loved it.

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But I wanted to get a master's
degree because we're taught that

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we need master's degrees in
order to be successful in

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education.
But the route that I went in in

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educational studies, I couldn't
get the traditional master's

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degree, so I went with
instructional design.

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I did not know that it was
exactly where I should be.

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It was creating content and and
creating learning experiences

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for any type of learner was
really where I thrived and where

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I found joy in education.
So I continued to dabble with

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that in the classroom and in my.
At my school sites and more and

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more started to realize that I
wanted to branch out and do more

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with instructional design and
learning design.

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So in October of 2022 I started
my journey.

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I started watching a ton of
YouTube videos and working

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really hard.
You're definitely a good company

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there.
I watch YouTube all the time.

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Absolutely a ton of YouTube
videos and then.

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I I found Holly and we connected
on on LinkedIn and then I joined

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the professional journey and
with her help and the help of

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YouTube and colleagues and
friends and family, I landed my

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role at the University of South
Florida.

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So awesome.
So awesome.

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I want to go back to something
that you said and it might this

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and Nadia, you can tell me this
might be another episode that we

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have to do.
When you said it resonated with

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me that you have to have a
master's degree in academia to

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be successful, that's the
expectation, right?

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Yeah, so that was almost like.
It was a given.

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Like that's what you do.
That's that's the path that you

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follow.
And to be quite frank, we were

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also kind of taught that if you
wanted more money, you needed a

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master's degree as well.
But the part that isn't really

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explained is that in many
different school districts and

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things like that, you have to
pick up a degree that follows

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under a certain.
A master's degree that follows

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under a certain qualification.
So even after I had gone and

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gotten my master's instructional
design, it didn't count for a

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race.
So right.

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And that's the thing, like the
whole master's degree thing.

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I think it's funny.
I've always thought it was

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funny, like in education.
Like they're that is like the

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only industry or sector that
really like makes you go back to

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school to get more money or to
gain any type of growth in your

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position.
And I think it's just always

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like we've always been trained
that way because I know we both

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we kind of connected because we
both are working on our masters

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or have worked on our masters
and instructional design.

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And I just think it's it's.
So I think that that's a little.

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I think it's just funny because
in any other sector, you know, a

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master's degree is seen as cool,
but it's not like a required

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thing for you to progress.
So I've always thought that that

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was interesting.
Do you feel like I have a

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question for you in regards to
your master's degree?

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Do you feel like that it really
prepared you for what you're

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doing now within your role?
Like do you feel like it that it

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was one of those things that is
really made a difference in you

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being able to like be more
confident in your role as a

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learning designer?
Thank you so much for that

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question because I've actually
had conversations about this

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before and while I respect my
program, I feel like I learned a

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lot more by trying things,
practicing with different tools

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and doing my role now.
Now did I get like a?

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An overall shell and idea, Sure,
yeah.

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But I didn't really.
I had to get kind of nitty

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gritty and dirty with the with
the tools that are available to

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really understand the scope of
what instructional design is.

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So I do think that there's quite
a lot of people that can be

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very, very successful without
the degree, but there's there

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are places that will.
Require you to have it.

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So if it's something that
someone wants to go for and do,

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I think that they should, but I
don't think it's necessary to be

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successful.
Yeah, I kind of agree with that.

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I think it gives you a good
foundation as to like what

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instructional design is.
But I think the the more you

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like get into the field and
practice and learn.

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I think you're learning just as
much as you would like in the in

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in a Master's degree program.
So another question I have for

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you is.
Thinking about your journey from

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like education or educational
studies and instructional design

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into learning design at USF.
What?

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Who has maybe inspired you along
your journey?

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So I would say first and
foremost my my aunt.

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She was in instructional
designed.

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Before I even knew what it was,
and she was very coming up, she

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really wanted me and my siblings
and my cousins to be very

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involved with technology and the
new different learning tools

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that were available.
And we just thought she was

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just, you know, wanting us to
keep busy.

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But now I now I know and
understand that she was really

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kind of helping us become
technology literate.

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Yeah, and it really helped.
What a fantastic aunt I want.

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One of those.
And and again, I didn't know it

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then and it took me quite a
while to to really understand,

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whoa wait a second.
She's been doing for years what

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I've what I'm trying to do now.
And I also, I really want to

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give my applaud and respect to
Holly because you supported me

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when I was just so stressed and
concerned about so many little

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pieces of the process.
So.

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I definitely appreciate Holly's
advice and encouragement along

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the way.
Y'all Nadica said the same

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thing.
I was like, it's very nice and

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you're so welcome.
But I feel like, and I told

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Nadia this too, this is like a
reciprocated relationship, like

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where we're helping each other.
And that's what I love about,

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like, the professional journey
in the LinkedIn community is

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that we're all here supporting
each other and trying to figure

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out our way.
Because I've been there, Nadia's

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been there, we've all been
there.

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And it's just so nice to turn
the people that you know you can

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trust and just figure your way
through.

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Especially I don't think there's
enough set out there about how

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to deal with the stress of it.
Although a lot, I'm seeing a lot

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come across some people's
LinkedIn post, especially with

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recent layoffs about like, you
know, the different interview

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rounds, how many there are like
connecting with people and

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getting, you know, information
back, like when you apply for a

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job.
So really it's something that

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needs to be talked about and it
really does impact like your

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mental health and overall like
how you feel about your talents

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and your potential.
And The thing is is.

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I, I, I, I don't think you
understand how much the

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professional journey like this
job market is absolutely insane.

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I really don't know what I would
have done without like you and

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all of the people and
connections that I've met

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through the professional
journey.

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Like it has really helped that
this whole transition, this

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process for for many of us.
So I think that's that's really

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what it boils down is just
having that community was so

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helpful, I agree.
Same, same everybody gay.

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So Mara, I know that you said
you were an educator before and

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thinking about your whole
transition, and you already

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talked about some of the
stresses.

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Are there any, like some pieces
of advice that you could give to

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people who are in that situation
right now where they're kind of,

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like stressed and they don't
know what the next step is to

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take?
They maybe they got laid off or

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maybe they're looking to step
out of education.

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Can you give them any you know,
just some advice on what to.

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Sure.
So I would say there's a lot of

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like tech programs and tools and
resources that are already like

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in districts they're already
funded, whether that's as simple

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as like a class Dojo or it's
near pot or whatever have you.

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I would encourage people to
utilize the tools that are

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already in their districts
already have.

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And try to find a way to
practice with those tools so

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that you're familiar with with
those learning technologies and

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how you can transfer that onto
tools that that you may not have

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access to like Articulate and
beyond and such.

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I would encourage those to start
working on a portfolio now.

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I actually started working on a
portfolio before I really even

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knew what jobs.
Like where I really wanted to

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go, I was still, I was still
unsure if I really wanted to

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leave education.
But I started working on it just

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so that I I was prepared and I
had that practice.

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And I also would encourage those
that let's say you've decided,

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you know you want to leave
education, This is something I

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really want to do, and you've
been applying and applying,

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applying and you just you just
can't get it.

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To just continue applying and
I've shared this with you guys

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before that my thought process
on it is to every denial is one

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step closer to the to the
approval to that e-mail to the

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next interview to that to that
offer.

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And that sounds very, I guess
you could say it sounds toxic

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positivity mindset, but it
really helped me get through

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those at some .50, a hundred
denial emails because that that

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offer will be there as long as
you.

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Put that effort in to better
yourself and and really show and

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leverage the skills that you've
obtained.

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I I was just going to that's
great.

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I love every denials.
One step closer to approval.

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That's a great quote and also
too like I don't know when

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positivity became toxic.
I don't know when positivity

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became something negative.
I don't quite understand that

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because I feel like through your
experiences in life, like that's

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the positivity and the hope is
what really keeps you going,

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especially in these these sorts
of situations.

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So thank you.
That's, that's great that that

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might be the title of the
episode or that's definitely

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going in the show notes
somewhere.

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That's a great quote and we're
putting your name beside it,

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giving you credit.
Thank you.

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Thank you.
Yeah I always say rejection is

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redirection like.
And sometimes rejection is

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protection because sometimes you
don't know why you're being

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rejected, but it could just be
it redirecting you to something

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better and or protecting you
from something that you have no

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clue that you're being protected
from.

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So yeah, I'm totally, totally
down with that, that quote.

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So, Mariah, you work at, you
work in higher Ed and it's quite

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different from education.
So what are the some of the

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things that you you've seen,
like some of the differences

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you've seen between working like
in a classroom and then going

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into higher education and
working at it, you know, a

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larger institution that's pretty
well known, I'll say.

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Yeah, I would say even as small
as the way that higher education

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uses canvas compared to how we
may use it in like K12 systems

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when it comes to online
learning.

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Use it heavily and I'm sorry.
We use it heavily and I find

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that I've learned so much more
about canvas than I thought I

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knew.
I I thought I was this Wiz about

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it and I've learned so much more
with it.

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Also just the way that adults
work together.

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I mean it's still it can be high
stress in certain.

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To meet certain deadlines and
things like that, but just the

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level of respect that everyone
has for each other is really

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warm and refreshing.
And the availability to

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different tech tools that I
would dreamed of being able to

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be able to use, I love it for
that.

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Isn't that so?
My gosh, it's like this whole

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world opens up.
Yes.

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I before I'm like okay.
I can get a week free trial

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here.
I can get a 30 day here and now

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you can get it and.
Now I can really play around,

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and when I have that time, I can
use tools and things that I

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didn't, that I didn't get to use
before.

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So yeah, I think that's really
where the big changes show up.

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Cool.
Awesome.

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00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:26,619
So thinking about.
What you know all that you've

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accomplished moving into this
new role as a learning designer,

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what are some of your goals for
the rest of this year or even

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the upcoming year?
I'm just thinking kind of ahead,

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00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:39,900
what are some some things you
want to accomplish are some

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things that you have to look
forward to as far as some goals?

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Sure.
So I have.

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I have a couple I definitely
want to get.

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More comfortable and confident
with some of the tech tools that

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we use because I feel good about
it and then I'm, I may be thrown

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a project and I'm like what?
Wait, I didn't know that it

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00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:05,190
could do that.
So I'd like to learn a lot more

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of that and I really enjoy.
I just got back from a

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conference today and I really
enjoy conferences.

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I like that opportunity to share
what you've learned and really

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like bounce ideas off of
colleagues and peers.

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00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:25,890
So I would love to.
And it may be, I guess you could

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00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:32,210
say adventurous, but if I I'd
like to present at a conference,

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00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:37,610
even if it's something small
like about AI use or something

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00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:40,130
like that, I'd really love to
present at a conference because

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I think it would help with my
fear of public speaking, but it

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00:18:44,490 --> 00:18:49,380
would also let me.
Share what I really enjoy and

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that's creating and learning and
diving into new tools and things

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like that.
And AI is such a huge topic

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00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,500
right now.
So I would love to be involved

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00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:04,420
in an AI conference with an
instructional designer learning

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00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:06,380
design.
And I know that my institution

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00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:10,020
is is also really curious about
AI as well.

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00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:12,820
So I think they would definitely
back me up on that.

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00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:15,060
That's awesome.
That's a great.

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00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,710
Opportunity there.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

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00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:21,230
And I think that you should
definitely go for that.

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00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:23,430
And so this time next year when
we're catching up with you,

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00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:26,750
you'll be you've you, you have
will have presented at a

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00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:30,630
conference, offices are so cool.
Yeah, yeah, we're putting that

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00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:33,350
on to the universe and there's a
really close conference.

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00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:36,350
Well, not super close because
it's here in University of South

316
00:19:36,350 --> 00:19:39,670
Florida.
But so one of the things is one

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00:19:39,670 --> 00:19:41,950
of the conferences that's
actually close to you, Maria, is

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00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:44,870
the OLC.
Oh, they're in DC this year, but

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00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:48,260
they're usually in Orlando.
And I love presenting at that

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00:19:48,260 --> 00:19:50,820
conference.
It's so many different topics,

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00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,100
like so many different people
you can meet.

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00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,100
It's huge.
So I would definitely recommend

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00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,420
that as something to you present
and other people who are

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00:19:57,420 --> 00:19:58,700
thinking about going into it
too.

325
00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:02,220
Yeah, for sure.
I love walking away from those.

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00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:04,640
Well, the moment that I, It
could be something that I

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00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,840
already know about or it could
be something that I've never

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00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,120
heard of, and my wheels start
turning immediately.

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00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:10,840
I'm like, how can we use this?
What can we do differently?

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00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,600
I just, I guess I'm a nerd that
way.

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00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,240
I really love.
I really love learning.

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00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,080
Learning.
I love it.

333
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:23,230
Absolutely.
So we've had a wonderful

334
00:20:23,230 --> 00:20:25,230
conversation with you.
We've learned a lot about your

335
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:28,550
journey, some of your advice and
things that you would recommend

336
00:20:28,550 --> 00:20:30,630
to people.
We have two final questions we

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00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:34,830
like to ask on the show.
So the first one is release 3.

338
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:38,070
Is there anything we miss and
anything else you'd like to

339
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:39,990
share?
And then what we really want to

340
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:42,590
know from you, and you're kind
of already talking about this a

341
00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:45,310
little bit, is what does the
future of education look like?

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00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:49,070
So anything that we miss and
tell us about the future.

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00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:53,460
So I don't think there's
anything that we miss.

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00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,300
I I really love this
conversation.

345
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:01,340
It's a joy to talk to you guys.
Well, when I look at the future

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00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:05,860
of education, I think we're kind
of at like a breaking point

347
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:11,020
right now when it comes to K12
and higher Ed and a I does have

348
00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:14,340
a part in that.
But just what's what's happening

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00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:17,940
in the world and the way that
that learners look like how

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00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:22,560
learners look now we're at a
point where we really got to

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00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,360
read.
We've I really believe that we

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00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,560
have to revamp what we know
education and learning to look

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00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,520
like.
And I'm excited to be a part of

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00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,200
that because like I said I like
to, I like to see, I like the

355
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,240
wheels turning.
I like to think of those plans

356
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,880
and ideas even if they fall
flat, I like to be a part of

357
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,320
that.
So I really do think that

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00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,750
education is going to, if we
want it to be successful, it's

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00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:51,790
going to have to look very, very
different than it does now.

360
00:21:51,790 --> 00:21:54,590
And I think that's OK.
It's going to be different and

361
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:57,470
it's going to be scary.
But that's where growth comes

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00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:59,870
from.
So we'll see.

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00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:03,070
I can't wait.
I'm ready.

364
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:04,990
I mean, they need to be at a
breaking point.

365
00:22:05,070 --> 00:22:07,510
They need to figure something
out here, absolutely.

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00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:09,670
Yeah, I agree.
We need, we need a

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00:22:09,670 --> 00:22:12,790
transformation of education.
There's just going to have to be

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00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:17,410
some things that change.
And I'm hopeful, let's just say

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00:22:17,410 --> 00:22:20,010
that as well.
I'm like I'm hopeful for that.

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00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:22,650
And like Mariah said, I'm
excited to be a part of that

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00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:26,050
too.
So that's a great, great answer

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00:22:26,050 --> 00:22:29,570
there.
Yeah, well Mariah, we can't

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00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:32,090
thank you enough for coming on
the show and sharing your.

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00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,520
Experiences.
I put you in all kinds of public

375
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,000
speaking situations now, so
consider this your practice.

376
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,320
So when you go and you get
accepted to the conference,

377
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,840
you're already ready.
You've already had a few few

378
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,880
mock sessions, but we can't
thank you enough for your time

379
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,880
and talking to us here.
Yes, so much you guys.

380
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,440
You definitely are helping me
break out of that shell, so I

381
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,720
really appreciate it.
Having to be.

382
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,160
Yes, absolutely.
It's so great talking to you

383
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,640
again, Mariah.
Thank you guys.

384
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:11,940
Are you ready to embark on a
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