78: Hire this Person, My Conversation with Stephen Schaeffer, Education Disturber, Design Thinker, Educator, Advisor, App Developer and Future UX Designer

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Hello, my name is Holly Owens
and welcome to Ed up edtech the

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podcast that keeps you.
In the know about all the latest

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edtech happenings.
We interview guests from around

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the globe to give you deeper
insights into the Ed tech

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industry, the field of
instructional design, and more,

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It's time to sit back and enjoy.

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Enjoy the latest episode of Ed
up attack.

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Hello everyone, and welcome to a
special episode of Ed up.

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Ed Tech.
My name is Holly Owens and I'm

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your host and today we are doing
an episode where we are

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highlighting a fantastic human
being, who is on the hunt for a

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new role today on the show, I
have with me Stephen Schaefer,

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who is an educator?
So Stephen.

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Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.

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Holly, I'm excited, you know, we
know each other for my community

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and I'm excited to talk to you
and here and highlight.

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All the wonderful things that
you have been doing

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professionally and hearing more
about you and sharing that with

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our vast audience.
Looking forward to it, it'll be

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fun.
Yes, so let's get right into it.

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So tell me a little bit about
yourself and how you journeying

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into the education space.
So I've been in education now

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for about About 22 going on, 23
years.

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Yeah, 23 years ish.
I actually got started actually

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through.
I was playing sports.

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And my, the first job I had was
teaching tennis.

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And they actually wanted to
develop a program for some youth

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that were on the verge of either
dropping out or not going to

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college.
And so that sort of led me to

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going down, the education rabbit
hole.

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Little bit as I learned more and
more about just different ways

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that I can try and connect with
them.

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My mentor was a 30-year math
teacher and after my little run

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at the tennis spot he suggested
that I get into education and

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then that took me down to you
know, working with primarily

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what we call Idol youth who are
kids who have disengaged and are

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re-engaging with their High
School experience where I have

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been an administrator After
where ran a school for kids, who

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had dropped out of school?
And I'm currently in a role

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where I work with students who
are also read engaging in their

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High School experience in a
project-based learning

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atmosphere.
Oh my goodness.

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You're you're doing a lot of
impactful work.

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Yeah.
When it comes to re engaging the

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students and I just realized we
have a, you know, I love sports,

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I used to coach as well and just
met we always told the students

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or like you're a student
athlete.

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So the And part of that comes
first.

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Well, with sometimes, sometimes
they forget that sometimes they

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forget that.
So now that you've been in this

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game for, you know, quite a bit
and you've done some like I said

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some pretty impactful work and
you have all the experience.

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It sounds like you're wanting to
take a shift and get into more

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of like ux research ux design.
So what's been inspiring you

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along the way?
The kind of make that transition

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and yux.
What's What's the attractiveness

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there?
So my entry into ux was actually

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through a service design
Workshop.

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We were in covid, there was a
local agency around where I live

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in Philadelphia called think
company and they did this whole

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thing around service design.
And I had been sort of like I

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had, I knew a little bit about
service design and learning

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experience design, but I was
like, oh, this was something

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that seems really interesting.
And then after that particular

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Workshop, We actually like try
to solve an actual problem.

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It's just really like peaked and
interests and sort of scratch

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the different itch that
education sort of does as well.

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Right, you know, your I look at
my students is like puzzle

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pieces, right?
Or as pieces of a puzzle.

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Yeah.
Right.

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And so like, I have to sort of
figure out like, okay, what

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piece do I need to kind of put
together in order for you to

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get, you know, whatever it is
that we're currently working on

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and then what ux did for me, you
know, and learning experience

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design what they did for me was
they sort of like, Oh, now I can

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look at this like larger
Challenge and be like, oh what

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are the missing puzzle pieces
that we need to put together for

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that?
I like it how you use the

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analogy of a puzzle because
that's definitely what you do

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with lxd and definitely you X
design.

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So I do want to ask you a
question.

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Off-script about ux design.
So you said, you went to a

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workshop and what kind of
problem in the workshop where

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you were, you trying to solve
that inspired you to kind of

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look at this, this industry,
more?

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Sure.
So, the problem we were looking

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at this is in the very, very
beginning of covid.

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So this was prior to like, all
of the major Delivery services

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for psych supermarkets and
things.

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So, you know, like when we first
went in, you know, they have

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these like long lines and people
had to stay six feet away, but

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local supermarket was actually
trying to do a like order and

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delivery service, right?
Where you could go on their

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website order some food and then
the employees would put together

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the packages of food, you know,
the they would do your shopping

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for you and then you could then
come and pick the food out, just

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to again, try and keep that in.
Terms of people interacting with

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one another and so they were,
you know, brand new to the game.

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And so they kept, they wanted to
just sort of like, what, what

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should we do, what are the
pieces that they're doing?

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So they opened up their, you
know, their doors to us to say,

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like okay, well here's some of
the information that we have,

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what can we how can we make this
experience, you know, simple,

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right.
But yet efficient and, you know,

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cost-effective and how can we
design that kind of experience

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so that the so That our
customers are still being served

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and we're still, you know, sort
of continuing to, you know, keep

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our business up and running.
And obviously a lot of the

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skills you have as a coach and
as an educator transfer directly

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over into this type of research
of this type of Industry.

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Absolutely, absolutely, a lot of
the stuff, you know, when I'm

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planning for any of my lessons,
you know, I'm currently a math

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teacher so as I planned for any
of my Lessons, you know, I'm

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always thinking about the user
in terms of like, who I know I'm

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going to have in the room and
and, you know, the various

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capacities that they have or the
various fears that they have

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because I'm a math teacher, and
a lot of my students are have a,

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have a big fear of math.
I've had bad bad math

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experiences.
So, you know, I try and use.

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I'm one of those students.
Listen, I was wrong.

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Like really just sort of
thinking of it from their

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perspective and how can I, you
know, how can you make this

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experience, a little less
threatening, a little less

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fearful and a little bit more
enjoyable and sort of taking

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those aspects and being able to
incorporate them into the lxd

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experience.
Yeah.

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And you definitely do that and
ux design because you want it to

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be, you don't want it to be.
Threatening to the the end-user

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you want to be comfortable, you
want to be in like a space.

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Kind of like where the product
or the system itself just

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disappears into the background.
And you don't think it's just a

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part of you.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
It was it was a lot of fun.

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You know, definitely was
eye-opening because it was

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really my first time at that
kind of level, you know.

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They really broke it down for us
in terms of, you know, like you

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need to be thinking about these
aspects and you need to think

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about, you know, this side of
the experience and that side of

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the experience, from both the
customer.

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And then also from the store
perspective to write and how

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those, how those two things get
married?

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And so it was really, really,
really eye-opening experience.

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One, I was like, oh, this is a
transferable skill but he's

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skills that I've been working on
as a teacher.

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I can now apply this in a
different way.

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And so that was sort of where
the connection came.

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Well, I'm so glad you had that
Workshop experience.

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A lot of people, seek those
things out or know that those

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kinds of things exist, where you
can kind of explore an industry

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before you hop into it.
And I love the fact that they

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had you to a real life project.
Yeah, you know.

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That's that's really how.
Patients should be but that's a

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podcast episode for another day.
That's a whole.

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That's right.
So, you know, tell us a little

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bit about yourself, what are
some of the like, the main

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skills that you possessed and
knowledge?

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You know, what things are you
looking to do you have any

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current projects that you can
share, you know, highlight all

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the wonderful things about you.
Stephen tell us what is so

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great, like, which why should we
follow you?

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Tell us all the banks.
Well, so, you know, like I said,

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I've been at this.
I've been at Education, for

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20-plus years.
I work with a very particular

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population, but that population
is sort of General in terms of

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like okay.
Yeah, I'm you know, we

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identified students that we
consider Idol or re-engaging but

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those are students that you see
on a regular basis even if

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they're coming to school every
day, those kids that are not

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necessarily engaging.
So I really have a greater

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understanding and I can bring a
lot of wisdom to, you know, I

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bring a lot of wisdom and
experience to that.

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I'm also really creative like I
love.

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You know, this is gonna sound
sort of odd but I love problems,

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right?
I love problems in the sense

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that they can, they can all be
solved and I feel like even that

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your math teacher, right?
And you know, the other thing

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about it too, is that not?
Every problem needs to be solved

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the same way like a lot of the
things that I work with my

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students around, is this idea
that yes, there are certain

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formulas in there are certain
techniques that you can use, but

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you can still get to the same
answer.

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Use going in and going at it
from a different approach.

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And really trying to embrace
that.

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And so I've I have fully
embraced that idea to it's sort

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of like okay?
Yep there are some traditional

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ways in which, you know, certain
problems can get handled but

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there are also some other
creative, you know,

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opportunities that are also out
there too.

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And I think very creatively as
well just because, you know, I

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have a, I have a filmmaking
background so the idea of you

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know, like, oh that's fancy.
And so you have to think about

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it from like, oh, what about
this shot?

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What about this shutter?
How can this character do this?

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And this one?
Yeah, But always that, you know,

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this message can be conveyed,
whether it's, you know, but by

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being spoken or nonverbals, or
any of those kinds of things.

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So I'm bringing a lot of those
talents to, to the table.

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Absolutely.
And you didn't mention the, the

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beta, the app that you're
testing.

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Yeah.
So there is a highlight that,

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don't forget that.
Let's highlight the app.

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So in my current school, so I
currently work for an

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organization called Big Picture
film.

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Delphia we are part of a larger
network of schools, called Big

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Picture learning.
And so one of the components

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that we have run up against sort
of time and time again, is this

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idea of a thing called the
learning plan.

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The learning plan is supposed to
be the guide to kind of help the

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student sort of guide, their own
learning.

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And we've gone through, I've
been at this school now, for

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seven years, we've probably gone
through about twenty four

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iterations of this, just because
it's like, oh, Going to do it on

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paper at first and no, that's
not really working.

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So we're going to try it on
computer and then we're going to

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try an Excel spreadsheet or
we're going to try a Google

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sheet and now it's a word doc.
And so I was like, you know,

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it's trial and error early when
it comes to these sorts of

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situations.
And so I kind of looked at this

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and said, well, what is the
thing that what's the constant

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that the kids are always using?
And obviously, it's their phones

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and apps are obviously a huge
thing, you know, that continued

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to grow throughout, you know, as
we as we continue to Faced with

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these phones.
And so I was like, what if we

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created or what if I could
create an app that could capture

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the things that the students
need in terms of understanding

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the how to prioritize their
learning and then also, you know

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really help them start to wrap
their heads around time

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management, right?
A lot of the students that are

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deal with both, you know, idle
or non idle, you know, you know,

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they struggle with time
management.

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So, the app is a A little bit
prioritization, little bit of

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time management and that sense.
Yes.

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And I think it's so important to
highlight, like, you came up

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with this, you know, basically,
like on your own just thinking

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about the end user, what was
needed, what they're using in

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real life relating it.
To all that.

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Did some trial and error when it
comes to like setting things up

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that is like project management
101.

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Yeah, figuring out where to
start with things and how you're

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going to get from point A to
point B and who's involved and

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what's involved.
I mean that's really awesome

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that you have this beta thing
going on.

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Yes.
Yeah, so we actually just

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started testing in our school.
I've got about 20 students that

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are currently using the app were
gathering data as we speak to

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sort of figure out.
Again, it's really.

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I mean like I'm very, very early
in the stages.

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It's really just like this is
the fourth version of the MVP,

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you know, so that we're kind of
working through right now.

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So you know, I'm getting some
really great feedback from the

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students some that sort of like
yeah this doesn't work.

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And so that's good.
So that means I can then take it

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and start to iterate as a result
and as Think about it, just

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saying it out loud.
Like I think about that initial,

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you know, lxd the service design
experience and sort of like oh

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at the end of that, I thought
like, oh well, how can I apply

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this?
And so now you know a year plus

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later, this is what the result
of that is.

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Yeah, you've made progress.
I think that's one thing.

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Two people aren't necessarily
cognizant of is that you have

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started somewhere and it,
although it does it feel like

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you've gotten very far, you
really have?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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You gotta remind yourself of
that.

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It's really difficult.
Cult to be like, oh my god, I've

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spent so many hours and it's
just here, but that is progress.

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Yeah, so congratulations to you
for doing that.

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Thank you.
I appreciate that.

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Of course.
So I'm going to ask another

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question Off Script.
I want to know right now if what

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is your dream job, if you could
describe that for the audience,

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you know, if what is your dream
role when you're coming to

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transition out of Education, are
you looking at like, ux research

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lxd?
What is your dream job entail?

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Actually, I would love to be
part of an lxd team, right?

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That is, whether it is on the
research side or even on the

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implementation side.
You know, I had such an amazing

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time doing that thing.
And again, I've done more

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research around, you know, just
learning experience, design in

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general.
And the more, the more I dive

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into it, the more I realized
like, oh, that is really

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something where I want it, you
know, like that learning

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experience, design and service
design, like those two areas of

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the, the Areas really won't know
that I would love to focus on.

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And even if that is like
designing school, you know,

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like, you know, I've seen some
opportunities out there on

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LinkedIn and, you know, all
these other remote job spaces

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00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,800
and things like that, where you
know, just the idea of Designing

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00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,800
schools and trying to help in
the development of that.

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00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,600
Like that would be an ideal, you
know opportunity.

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For me again, I'm also a very
creative thinker or bring 20,

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00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,200
plus years of experience to the
table.

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So it's also sort of like, oh
yeah, you know, have we thought

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00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,900
about This and, you know, here's
the latest and greatest

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00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:58,500
information about this because
you know, I'm a researcher, you

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00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,500
know, by Night by night kind of
thing.

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00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:06,200
So yeah, that would be an in an
ideal world like that would be

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my dream role.
I love it and that's so gonna

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00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,200
align with the creative mind
that you have and all you're

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00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,200
saying, I'm so glad that you
came on and you're talking to me

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00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,000
about all these things and
sharing it out and just putting

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it out into the universe.
Like, what year your ideal?

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00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:25,100
Because you've already, you
know, you've given back in the

305
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:26,500
sense of being an educator
South.

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Now you're thinking, like, what
is my next step here?

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It's not the end of the road for
me.

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00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,500
So, what's my next step?
I love that you're doing that.

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00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,800
Yeah, I think the other next
step two is, you know, my wife

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00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,400
has been out in California.
She's been in Northern

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00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,100
California since October of
2021.

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00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,400
She got this amazing job
opportunity with the food bank

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00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:53,100
of Contra, Costa and Solano.
And so when decision was Coast.

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00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,600
Yes we're oh my gosh bicoastal.
So my youngest son was a junior

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00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,100
at the time.
We have for kids, collectively

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00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:04,400
and so my youngest son was a
junior at the time.

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00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,599
He's the last one to be
finishing up.

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00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,200
He's actually will be finishing
in June.

319
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,200
Very excited about that to him.
That's awesome.

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00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,900
Yes, thankfully, so, you know,
when the decision was, oh, you

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00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,599
know, this really wonderful
opportunity in California.

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00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,200
It was also sort of like, okay,
well, I knew that there was an

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00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:25,500
End date where I was.
And so really thinking about

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00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:29,400
that transition and then making
that shift from the east coast

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00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,500
to the West Coast.
You know has really been another

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00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:36,300
kind of layer to you know the
search and really trying to tap

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00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:39,900
into the skills and really
highlight the skills that I have

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00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:44,100
to you know hopefully aligned
with the organization and to be

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00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:45,600
honest with you I just need an
opportunity.

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00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,600
Like all I really needed to just
get my foot in the door and I

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00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,400
promise you I will, you know,
make your So much stronger.

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00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:56,300
You know what I mean?
I bring such a wealth of, you

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00:17:56,300 --> 00:18:00,700
know, talent and energy and
creativity to, you know, to a

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00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,800
position that I just really need
that that foot in the door.

335
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:08,200
Yeah just you already have like
you said the vast amount of

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00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,600
experience and talking to you
and hearing your so clear and

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00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,300
concise about where you want to
go with things and your voice on

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00:18:15,308 --> 00:18:18,600
top of that is just calming,
there's like no sense of

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00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,300
urgency.
You know a lot of different

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00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:21,900
corporate spaces.
There's a lot of sense of

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00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:23,100
urgency.
See, I feel like you would

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00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:27,400
definitely you honor the process
and you take it step by step and

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00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,400
make sure that everything is
ready to go as it should be for

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the end user.
So it just it just is amazing

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00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,900
where I see a bright future for
you is what I'm trying to say.

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00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,700
So I want to know, is there
anything or coming up on the end

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00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:47,900
of the episode here?
Is there anything that we missed

348
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:49,300
what's next?
For you?

349
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:52,200
I know you're talking about,
you're going to the West Coast.

350
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:53,700
Anything else that you'd like to
share?

351
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:57,400
I feel like the west coast is
sort of the next minute.

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The next major step for me, and
then, you know, sort of taken

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00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,700
the app to the next level.
Again, we're currently beta

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00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,700
testing and in one school over
here on the east coast, and then

355
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,300
I want to take that information
and then do some iteration.

356
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:14,500
But then possibly finding
additional schools, you know, to

357
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:16,800
also help with beta testing the
app.

358
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I feel like that's going to be
really important, you know?

359
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,000
And then really just thinking
about you know, No plotting a

360
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,100
path towards, you know, the
future my future and attack,

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00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:30,700
whatever that looks like whether
it's, you know, doing the deeper

362
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:34,600
dive around this particular app
or, you know, working with an

363
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,400
organization or a company or
school that where I can just

364
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,400
again, add, you know, some
tremendous value to that

365
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,600
organization.
So, that's really, really what?

366
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,300
I'm what I'm looking forward to
moving forward.

367
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,000
I love it.
I can't wait to see what you do

368
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,400
next and I can't thank you
enough for being a part of the

369
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,900
professional.
Community.

370
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,500
You hopped in when it was pilot
stages so he might have been a

371
00:19:56,500 --> 00:20:00,000
little messy at first.
Listen, I'm glad listen.

372
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,400
So let me give a little
Shameless plug here.

373
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,800
Okay, I'll go check her out on
LinkedIn.

374
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,400
Everybody on LinkedIn, number
one, number two, she's got this

375
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,000
incredible professional Journey
community that she is building

376
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,500
out.
It is a wondrous, wonderful

377
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,500
thing to be a part of.
Like the thing about it was I

378
00:20:21,508 --> 00:20:24,300
could never make the The live
classes and I was like, oh,

379
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:26,000
there's one day, I'm going to
make a lot of class.

380
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600
I could never do it just because
I had other things that I was

381
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,200
working on but like the the
amount of information and the

382
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,700
and the just like connections
and things that you bring to the

383
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,800
table are just incredible.
I am like I'm so thankful just

384
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,200
to have been a part of that
because I was actually initially

385
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,900
wait-listed.
Yeah and I miss them.

386
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:53,100
Not.
Thank you enough.

387
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,200
It was, oh, you're welcome.
I think you're right back

388
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,900
because you bring so much added
value to the community and it's

389
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:02,500
so much fun and inspiring to me
people like you and other people

390
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,800
in the community as you know,
who are on the same path of

391
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,100
finding something different, and
it's just nice to have that

392
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,900
support there.
So thank you for the shout out.

393
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:14,700
I'm not blushing, I appreciate
you and all that you're doing

394
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:17,000
and thank you for being an
education, so long.

395
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,700
Oh my gosh.
It's just, it's so inspiring to

396
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:23,400
hear your story.
And I can't wait to see what you

397
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,000
do next.
Yeah, thank you.

398
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,300
Holly, I really appreciate the
opportunity to be on the show.

399
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,000
So everything about Stephen is
going to be in the show notes.

400
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,400
Go follow him and Linkedin to
send him.

401
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,300
Ux job, send them what, you
know, things in California, so

402
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:39,400
he can get back together with
get the family and get the band

403
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,600
back together and everything.
So Steven, thanks again.

404
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:48,200
Thank you.
You've just experienced an

405
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,100
another amazing episode of Ed
up.

406
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:54,600
Ed Tech.
Be sure to visit our website at

407
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,900
edip edtech.com to get all the
updates on the latest edtech

408
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:02,700
happening.
See you next time.