177: Lead It Like Lasso, Live It Like You: Marnie Stockman & Nick Coniglio on Becoming Your Own CEO

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Welcome back to another episode
of Ed Up L&D, where we dig deep

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into the world of learning,
leadership, and career

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transformation.
Today's episode is an awesome

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one because I'm joined by two
powerhouse guests, Marnie

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Stockman and Nick Cornelio.
Between them, they have been

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high school teachers, Ed tech
leaders, entrepreneurs, and now

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authors.
Their latest mission?

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Helping people lead themselves
and others with the same heart,

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humor, and humanity that's made
to have Lasso, a global

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sensation.
We talk about why they walked

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away from stable corporate jobs
to build something of their own.

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How their book Lead It Like
Lasso became a leadership

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framework for life and business,
the launch of their brand new

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book, The Business of You, and
how to truly become the CEO of

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your own life.
Plus, the lessons they've

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learned about risk, resilience,
running your life like a

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business.
Whether you're a leader looking

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to level up, a teacher thinking
about making a big transition,

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or just someone who needs a
little push to finally take that

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leap, you'll find so much
insight and plenty of laughs in

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this conversation.
Let's dive in.

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Hi, we're ispring, an
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our resources, and connect.
Hello everyone, and welcome to

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another amazing episode of Add
Up L&D.

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My name is Holly Owens and I'm
your host and I have two amazing

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guests with me today.
I have Marnie and Nick, and

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they're going to talk about all
things leadership leading it

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like Lasso.
But first, before we get into

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all the details about that, I
would love to start with you,

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Marnie.
Tell us your story.

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How did you get here?
And then we'll pass it off to

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Nick so he can share his as
well.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So I started out as a high

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school math teacher.
So in the land of folks

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transitioning, I definitely did.
I made that happen, went into

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administration, and there I
found myself using an assessment

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platform for the school system I
worked for, and that assessment

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platform decided that maybe I
should come run customer success

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for them.
So I landed in the world of

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edtech that way.
So as you know, when you leave

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the classroom, people say you go
to the dark side when you go to

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the board office, and then when
you leave the board office and

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go to a vendor, that's like the
double dark side.

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I can tell you I love it here.
And and that is actually where I

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met Nick.
So the company that I worked for

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when I landed on my very first
Zoom call of the support team,

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Nick was running the support
team.

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And as a secret side note,
that's not so secret in the

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company, everyone put in tickets
to clone Nick because they all

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wanted another Nick on the team.
So I knew I was walking into a

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superhero when I met him.
So I'll let him take our story

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from from there, because our
paths are very parallel from

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there.
Yeah, parallel, but they were

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very different from the
beginning.

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So I was, I was a programmer, I
was computer science major, I

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was a programmer.
I was that guy who sat in the

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corner office with his doors
closed, drinking 14 Cokes a day,

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not talking to anybody.
But eventually I, I broke out of

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my shell.
I, I went into consulting from a

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technology perspective and
landed in Ed tech just like

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Marni said.
And not only did I run support,

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I also ran the engineering team
of what is now Power School

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product.
But really our, our paths

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intersected at a point where we
were working for a small company

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at the time.
And we kept on getting acquired

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and acquired and acquired.
And at some point, yeah,

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absolutely, absolutely, very
old.

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And Marni was responsible for
customer success.

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Like she said, I was customer
support.

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That was one of my
responsibilities.

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And we kept on getting asked to
do so much more with so much

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less.
They were.

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They kept paring down our teams,
smaller, smaller, smaller, all

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at the same time saying, hey,
our #1 core value is raving

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fans.
And Marni and I kind of looked

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at each other.
We were asked to come up with

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these plans, which we did.
And we were pretty successful at

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it.
We're like this, this clash,

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this, this stinks.
This is no fun.

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There's no fun at all.
And at that point, we decided to

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what did, what did we say?
What did I say, Marty?

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So Nick said we should start a
company to see if we can start a

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company for one and see if and
run it so that our employees and

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our customers never feel the way
we feel right now.

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And that's exactly what we did.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
Wow.

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And Marnie, I was a high school
teacher.

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I taught government, so we have
a similar background.

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Yeah.
And I also fell in love with

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that tech.
And I didn't jump into that tech

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until recently.
I kind of stayed away from the

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dark side a little bit.
But now.

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But now I'm making that
transition out on my own.

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Yeah.
But I was.

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Yeah.
It's just.

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It's just, it feels like the
right time.

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It feels like the right time.
You know, they say it's never a

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right time to do things, but at
a certain point I feel like I

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feel it like even when.
You're ready.

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You will never.
Be ready, yeah.

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Yeah, like Nick said, I mean, he
and he said we should start a

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company to see if we can.
And because we were working for

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the largest Ted tech company in
the world, we had to build a a

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company outside our space so
that we could eventually come

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back to the world of education,
which is part of our parallels

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with Ted Lasso, you know, born
in a strange land type of thing.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So tell me about the business,

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tell me about the lead it like
Lasso book and all all the

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different things that you're
doing.

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Share with their audience like
how how you support them.

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I want to hear it from both of
you.

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Give us the give us all the
goods and the details.

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I think Nick will start with the
lasso part of it, and I'll hate

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the second part of it because
he's the one that found Ted

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Lasso and frankly hooked us all.
Yeah.

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So the short story is when we
left at tech, like Marnie said,

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we ended up starting a business
and it was the world of IT

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technology providers.
We provided a customer success

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platform and we didn't really
want to do that for the rest of

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our lives, but we did.
We did it for a couple years and

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we started from scratch, we
scaled it, we built it to a

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multi $1,000,000 business and we
exited to really pursue what we

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wanted to do, which was that
honestly to help people become

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the best versions of themselves.
We, we are fascinated and we,

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our passion is, is truly
personal development and how to

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help people do that.
So we have we have large plans

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to do that, but we knew what we
needed to start somewhere.

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So that somewhere ended up being
writing a book called Lead it

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like Lasso.
And for those that have not seen

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the show, it's it's, it's Ted
Lasso.

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He's an American football coach
who goes over to the UK to, to

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coach European football, which
we know is soccer.

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And he's truly a fish out of
water.

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But as I was watching that show
while we were building that

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business, I'm, I'm watching it,
I'm like, my God, I know Ted

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Lasso.
I work with her every day.

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And it's Marty Stockman.
She is, she is goofy like him.

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She's positive.
She, she is all about helping

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people become their best
versions, which is our passion.

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And we thought, wouldn't it be
great to relate kind of the, the

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lessons that we learned, our
personal approach to not only

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personal leadership, but
building a business to the

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stories and the personal
development arcs in the show.

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Because we love to tell stories
and we, we think that's the best

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way to learn.
And that's exactly what we did.

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And, and we didn't have really
any idea because we've never

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really written a book like that
before, what would happen.

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And Fast forward, I mean the
book has sold over 40,000

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copies.
People we've met all.

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Sorts of interesting people,
yeah.

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It's been such a fantastic
experience for us.

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That's great, that.
Part of our journey, we, I don't

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think we expected to last a full
year before or you know, a year

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plus it that launched October
2023 because we always knew we

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wanted to get back to find a way
to help educators and students.

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One of the reasons that Nick
feels like I was Ted Lasso.

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I mean, aside from the goofy,
that'll be obvious.

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It was that I, he knew that when
I interviewed to be a teacher,

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that when I asked my philosophy
of education, I said that I

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think it's every teacher's
responsibility and privilege to

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help each student become the
best version of themselves.

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Which Ted Lasso said years
later, right?

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It's not about wins and losses.
It's about helping each person

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become the best version of
themselves.

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So with that in mind, we were
looking for a way to be helpful.

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So as we started talking with
all of these folks that had used

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our the leadership framework and
lead it like Lasso that had been

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successful, had been on our
podcast, etcetera, we really

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started seeing parallels, not
just in our own lives.

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We built Lead it like Lasso
around the parallels and

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frameworks.
We'd seen a long personal

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development, but we really
started noticing that the folks

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that were successful, whether
they realized it or not, were

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running their life like a
business.

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And if you hop on LinkedIn for
half a minute, you're going to

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run across, especially now that
this is being said out loud so

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that all of our phones hear it,
you're going to run across

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somebody that says you're the
CEO of you.

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You need to run your life like a
business.

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You need to, you know, be the
CEO of yourself.

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But where they get it wrong is a
lot of people, especially kids

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today, when they think of ACEO,
right, they think of somebody

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that's just making all these big
decisions and everything else

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just happens for them.
They don't realize that if

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you're going to be the CEO of
your own life, you're the head

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of your own HR, marketing,
finance, right operations.

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Accounting, bookkeeping, All the
things.

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All the things.
All the things.

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So how can you do that in a way
that helps you stand out and

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differentiate yourself in an
extreme, extremely crowded world

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of automation and digital
everything?

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And so that is actually on
August 15th, we're launching the

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Business of U book which
addresses exactly that.

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So.
That announcement, people.

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Big announcement.
Very.

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Excited about that?
Yeah, by the time this drops, it

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will already be out.
Perfect.

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So you can hunt this down.
Yeah, on LinkedIn, where Blue

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the business of you, when you
get to the end of the book,

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you'll see a secret about what
blue is.

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So.
Oh, cool.

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Well, Marty, I love your
LinkedIn post, especially today

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you did the about the emojis.
I'm really trying to think of

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some good stuff to to comment on
that.

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And you know, one of the things
I like to ask, especially you've

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been in Ed tech, you've, you
know, programming, teaching, you

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know, supporting client success
stuff.

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So, you know, what are you
bringing from that world really

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into what you're doing now?
Because I think sometimes people

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feel stuck.
They're like, you know, I think

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that one of the main barriers
for me was like the constant

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paycheck and the health
insurance.

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Those are the 2 main barriers
that people think about when

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they're going out on their own
or doing their own business.

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So also too like not the support
of like a team, it's just you 2

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00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,600
or whoever is you're hiring to
support you in the contract

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roles or, or things like that.
So I would love to hear your

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perspective about what you're
bringing with you, but also how

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do you deal with that, like that
shift from kind of consistency

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to kind of the roller coaster
ride that is being like an

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entrepreneur?
We're probably good people to

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ask on that only because we're
both pretty risk averse, so it's

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not like we're like woo Hoo.
Let's give up all this.

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Nick, what was your first
thought on that?

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00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:19,040
Well, I, I think for one, I know
I used to identify kind of, you

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know, my title.
I was, I was, I was promoted a

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lot, you know, and I never
really sought out leadership

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positions.
And, and to me, it was all about

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my identity was my title, vice
president, what have you, what

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you know, you know, leader of
development team, so forth and

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so on.
And I'm going to answer your

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00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,000
question, Holly here.
But ultimately what I realized

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is how I did anything is how I
do everything.

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And, you know, understanding
what drove me personally is

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really what grounds me in almost
everything I do.

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And, you know, at the core of
what I what I did as a

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programmer, I was a problem
solver.

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I love to figure things out and
you know, moving on through this

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entrepreneurial journey that is
always been my center, my focus

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and everything that I do.
While my title might change from

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a, a very consistent job in
corporate America to an

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entrepreneur, it's all still the
same to me.

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It's about helping figure out a
problem.

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It's, it's, it's helping others
problem solve for themselves and

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how to become that.
And I think one of the things

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that that we have learned is
that there's a lot of ups and

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downs with, with
entrepreneurship.

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I mean, we've, we've had moments
where we're like, what in the

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world are we doing this?
This is, this is not working at

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all.
But what, what we do find is

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that if we're centered and we, I
use the word centered, but we,

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we actually use kind of our core
values as our bumper pads to

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make sure that the decisions
that we're making keep us on

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track and we think about the,
the future.

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And that's been critical to us
because whenever you feel down,

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you know, you seem to get lost
in the noise quite a bit.

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You know, this is another
roadblock.

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This is something that is is too
risky.

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Are you still centered on what
makes you what makes you tick as

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a person has been really
important with dealing with

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those ups and downs.
Marty, you can probably that

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00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,440
answer much better than I just.
Well, that was good.

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00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,840
No, that was actually good.
And I want to, I want to comment

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00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920
that a lot of what you're saying
is resonating with me because,

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you know, at a certain point you
just get to you're like, what's

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00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,160
the, what are the benefits here?
Like what am I really leaving?

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Like toxic work cultures, you
know, like paycheck and health

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00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240
insurance.
Yes, but a lot of people can get

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health insurance off the
marketplace.

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They can get health insurance
through their spouse, you know,

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and then the, the consistent
paycheck, I find like that is

286
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something that I'm going to
miss.

287
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,280
But I, I, I, I'm so much more
motivated to work for myself and

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00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,440
do the things that I'm
passionate about and help people

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00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,480
in a way that is different than
actually just like just doing

290
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,320
the mundane work of the same
thing every day.

291
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,360
It's just not, it's not
invigorating, it's not

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00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,320
inspiring.
It's just like, and I'm, when

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00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,320
we're working for somebody else,
we're helping them achieve their

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dreams.
It's not necessarily aligned

295
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,240
with our dreams and values.
I mean, from a very tactical

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00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,080
point of view, I think doing the
research so that you understand

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00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,960
and plan for like, what is the
worst case scenario?

298
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,680
Like we jokingly laugh.
I play volleyball with my adult

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00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,840
children on Friday nights.
We always go to the pub

300
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,520
beforehand and my husband will
always say like Marnie's happy

301
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,360
to waitress right?
Like like the backup plan is all

302
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:48,640
right.
So if I have to waitress for

303
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,840
health insurance, I can do that
And I haven't had to waitress

304
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,000
for health insurance.
But just so you know, I'm a

305
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,920
really good waitress should push
come to shove.

306
00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:02,040
So I did you know to in the
tactical matter of paycheck and

307
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,760
health insurance, especially if
you have a family, you do have

308
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,839
to think through.
But if you start thinking of

309
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,680
like this has happened, I don't
have a paycheck anymore, I don't

310
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,880
have health insurance anymore,
solve that problem.

311
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,400
Like Nick said, he's a problem
solver.

312
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,800
Work the problem and figure out
several different routes and I

313
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,839
bet you can find a way to make
it happen.

314
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,040
So that's a tactical piece of
it.

315
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,800
The other part of your question
was what did we bring from who

316
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,680
we were to where we are now?
So I went from high school math

317
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,120
teacher to running customer
success to being the CEO of our

318
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,440
software company.
And like Nick said, we built a

319
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,680
customer success platform for IT
business owners.

320
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,400
So I was typically standing in a
room of 250 men doing a

321
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,240
presentation.
And I would say I started out as

322
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,560
a high school math teacher.
So you're probably wondering why

323
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,520
you should listen to me.
And they all would, like, sit up

324
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,720
a little straighter, afraid they
were going to get detention.

325
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,080
But they kind of nodded, like,
yeah, I am kind of wondering.

326
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,480
And I would say I sold
precalculus to 16 year olds.

327
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,520
So you can bet I can help you
sell customer and the importance

328
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:07,840
of it.
And they're like, yeah, all

329
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,480
right, I'm listening.
So Nick mentioned the phrase how

330
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,200
you do anything is how you do
everything.

331
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,480
When we realized that teaching
is really selling and customer

332
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,880
success and marketing right then
to bring that into the world of

333
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,320
Ed tech was not hard.
To bring that into the world of

334
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,040
it was not hard because it's all
about helping others.

335
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,400
Again, customer success is about
helping customers get value from

336
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,280
whatever service you're
suffering, exactly what you're

337
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,440
doing in the classroom, right?
It's all of the same pieces.

338
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,080
And now we are helping
individuals figure out how they

339
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,480
bring value to others so they
can pick a career that does

340
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,360
light them up and fire them up
every day.

341
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,320
And they're delivering their
they're getting their dream

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00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,560
accomplishing their goals, not
somebody else's.

343
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,120
And their goal might be working
for somebody else doing

344
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,440
something else, which is a great
goal, right?

345
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,560
But you all you need to know
that for yourself.

346
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,440
Right, I think it's really about
reflection too, like reflecting

347
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,080
on like where, where you're at
in life.

348
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,800
It's, it's always different.
And I'm, I'm going to tribute

349
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,400
this to middle-aged, becoming a
middle-aged woman that I'm just

350
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,040
like questioning and, and having
these conversations with myself.

351
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,480
Like, is this something I want
to do for the rest of my life?

352
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,160
And in relationships, we do this
too.

353
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,400
Like is this somebody who I want
to be with for the rest of my

354
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,080
life?
You know, those kinds of

355
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,080
situations and thinking about
like, what am I?

356
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:32,600
What am I doing?
Like, what am I actually doing?

357
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,200
Like, why am I not getting up
excited to go to work?

358
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,120
Like definitely having the
Sunday scary's definitely having

359
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,360
like those thoughts of like, can
I just call out today and, and

360
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,800
take a day for myself?
And I was finding too that, you

361
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,920
know, working, I've been working
full time, you know, for a very

362
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,560
long time, like almost 20 years.
But I'd always have these side

363
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,520
things.
Like I teach adjunct in higher

364
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,120
education and I know a lot of
our listeners do other side

365
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,200
hustles, like I'd start the
podcast and some other contract

366
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,120
work and stuff.
And I found that my main work,

367
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,960
and I'm OK to admit this now, it
was distracted by those side

368
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,640
hustles because that's where I
was getting, where I was

369
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,240
feeling.
My joy from your passion.

370
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,360
Yeah, yeah, that's where my cup
was getting filled from.

371
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,720
It's like the full time job
became the side hustle what it

372
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,240
wasn't supposed to be.
You're dialing in on that one.

373
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,800
Not not people weren't getting
the job done, but it wasn't

374
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,200
passion driven.
Yeah, it wasn't really passion

375
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,400
driven.
And as much as I want to help

376
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,520
people and like, you know,
through working in a tech, I

377
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,000
definitely understand about the
success, the programming aspect

378
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:35,800
and just all these different
things.

379
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,840
I was just like, what am I
doing, you know?

380
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,160
So it's.
Funny and that's I just say I, I

381
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,120
think, you know, we talk about
self reflection all the time

382
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:49,560
and, and I'm imagining for you,
Holly, yes, that that kind of

383
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,920
got you where you where you're
going right now.

384
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,800
But what we find is asking those
questions is really awkward and

385
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,760
it's hard.
And because you don't a lot of

386
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:03,240
times you don't like the answer
or it's, it's not it's scary.

387
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,200
Yeah, it's risky.
And you know, our, our we talk a

388
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,960
lot in our new book, the
business of you, you know, one

389
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,840
of the subtitles ask the right
questions.

390
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,680
And so many people avoid those
questions because they don't

391
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,360
really want to address and deal
with the answers that they know

392
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,320
are honest and true.
And I think that's a big hurdle

393
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,840
for people to get over.
I agree, my puppy is scratching

394
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,640
out the door.
So you what you have to do to

395
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,560
the same point around self
reflection, I think it was

396
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,680
Harvard Business Review did a
study, it showed that

397
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,240
self-awareness was the number
one indicator of leadership

398
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,720
success.
And Nick and I talked about and

399
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,680
lead it like last said, that
everyone's a leader, right?

400
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,320
In a classroom, a boardroom, a
locker room, a living room, you

401
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,280
have to lead yourself 1st.
And the only way you can do that

402
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,960
is to do that self reflection
and understand what's important

403
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,760
to you.
Like #1.

404
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,560
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think at at this point,

405
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,240
and I know like I said, a lot of
our listeners are probably

406
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,320
questioning this, maybe not so
much people at the beginning of

407
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,120
their career because they're
just trying to break into

408
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,520
something.
But like, you know, what do you,

409
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,440
what do you want for the rest of
the time?

410
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,280
You know, where do you really
see yourself, you know, in the

411
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,240
next 5 to 10 years not getting
too far away from the present

412
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,920
moment, but just figuring out
like where you want to be.

413
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,120
And I had a tough decision to
make.

414
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:30,080
Like you're saying, it's very
scary to figure out where you

415
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,120
want to go and ask yourself the
hard questions like can I leave

416
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,960
my full time job?
Well, basically I have a

417
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,000
conversation with leadership and
it was basically, sorry, choose

418
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,080
between my side hustles, which
are my true passions or do 100%

419
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,680
full time and the side hustles
won, they won.

420
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,800
Approach side hustle.
And I'll, I'll say something

421
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,560
kind of circle back to the, the
original question about, you

422
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,080
know, the taking on
entrepreneurship or, or getting

423
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,760
unstuck and, and moving on to
something new and something

424
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,040
different, avoiding burnout, all
those same things.

425
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,200
The biggest shortcut that we
have learned through our

426
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:16,400
experiences are is all about
creating value for other people.

427
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,600
And you know, we have something
in our new book, The Business of

428
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,240
You, where we talk about
learning and development

429
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,720
specifically, and we talk about
two ladders.

430
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,320
We talk about the, the
credentials ladder versus the

431
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,160
value ladder.
You know, the credentials

432
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,680
ladder, you know, where you're
learning to get certifications

433
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,640
or you know, build
certifications or awards or

434
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,720
something like that, which I was
stuck in myself at some point

435
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,200
during my career.
Versus the values ladder where

436
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,440
you're learning to build value
for other people for, for to

437
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,840
create opportunities and all.
Any success that both Martin and

438
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,920
I have had individually or
together has all been about

439
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,000
figuring out ways with our
message, our passion to create

440
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,280
value for other.
And I think the more people

441
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,080
people keep that front and
center of their mind with

442
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:15,520
anything that they take on after
all their self reflection in

443
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,560
terms of what they want to do.
I think that's the greatest

444
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,600
shortcut that any entrepreneur
or or any person looking to

445
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,680
change jobs can take is, is
using that as kind of the frame

446
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,000
and reference with everything
that they do, from learning to

447
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,160
interacting with other people to
networking, the list goes on and

448
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,440
on.
I can honestly say that I have

449
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,280
two master's degrees, a
bachelor's degrees, a

450
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,840
certificate in distance
education, leadership.

451
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,240
You know how many times I've
been asked to show those?

452
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:52,160
Yeah, 00, yes, 0 * 0 times.
And I'm like, I spent all this

453
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,240
money, like I have all this
experience now.

454
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,360
Like where does you know, this
is a conversation.

455
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,200
We're differently.
Where does experience equivalent

456
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,720
to what a degree is?
Yeah.

457
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,080
Oh yeah.
Yeah.

458
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,400
It's very different in this
world today.

459
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:04,720
It is.
It is.

460
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,360
We talked to a lot of colleges
who who would have the same

461
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,360
conversation with us around
enrollment cliffs and and

462
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:14,960
problems that they're having
because that there seems to be a

463
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,240
sliding scale now in the world
of college and career readiness.

464
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,040
Yeah, absolutely.
So for the people in the

465
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,480
audience and, you know, kind of
wrapping up the episode a little

466
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,520
bit, I would love to hear three
pieces of advice from each of

467
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,880
you.
And of course, we're going to

468
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,800
have everything and shoot on
where to get lead at light last.

469
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800
So where to find Marnie?
Where to connect with Nick and

470
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,840
these amazing 2 humans and their
new book the the the.

471
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,640
Business of you.
The business of you.

472
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,960
Sorry, I also saw something on
LinkedIn.

473
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,920
It was the What did it say
something about a the work in?

474
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,440
Work in progress.
I want to ask you about that.

475
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,720
What does that mean?
That is fun.

476
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:59,600
That is fun.
That is our we call it our

477
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,240
satirical sidekick to it is it
is a bit of a snarky newsletter

478
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,280
for folks that are stuck need
some career advice, but maybe

479
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,320
aren't just listening to the
same message.

480
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,120
You need it from a different
angle where you're like, oh OK,

481
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,120
I felt seen on.
Yeah, I love it.

482
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,400
I was like, oh, they didn't
spell it wrong.

483
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,560
That's awesome.
I love that so.

484
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280
We have a great time with that.
Yeah, that is, it is fun for us

485
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,960
too.
That is, in our new company,

486
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,000
having fun while we do it is one
of our core values.

487
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,640
Yeah, you should be having fun.
I mean, it's your own things,

488
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,760
your own dream.
You should be making it as fun

489
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,160
and exciting as possible.
Yeah.

490
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,800
So three pieces of advice for
the listeners about

491
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,840
transitioning into this world
like you, the teaching you've

492
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,520
been at the programmer, you,
you, you had all the titles and

493
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,800
now you're shifting into
entrepreneurial world, doing

494
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,920
your own thing.
Like let's start with you,

495
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,080
Marty.
What are three pieces of advice

496
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,760
you would give our listeners on
how to actively do that?

497
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,080
So the first thing that comes to
mind is aside from self

498
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,200
reflection, like honestly, we've
already said it, but I have to

499
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,880
say it again.
Do the work to do the self

500
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,760
reflection and then, you know,
figure out how you want to learn

501
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,400
and grow.
What is the next thing that you

502
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720
want to learn?
What challenge that is?

503
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,320
If you looked at LinkedIn, it
looks like every seven years I

504
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,760
seem to have a.
Like you have an itch, you have

505
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,440
an itch every seven years and.
They seem to be shorter now, and

506
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,840
now Nick and I are a year and a
half in and we're already, you

507
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,240
know what?
But we kind of knew that was

508
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,880
coming.
But figure out what challenges

509
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,680
you and how you like to learn
and grow and do one of those

510
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,040
things.
Next, pick the thing, learn it,

511
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,800
do it, grow.
I think that's how folks will

512
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,520
grow.
I think the other thing I'll say

513
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,400
is advice is right now it's easy
to do.

514
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,760
Figure out your pet peeve.
This sounds crazy, but figure

515
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,760
out your pet peeve, why it's
your pet peeve.

516
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,240
And then use that to say that
means I would be horrible at

517
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,680
this job and it means I might be
great at this type of work

518
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,120
because that unlocks a lot of
things we talked to.

519
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,080
I mean, at this point, hundreds,
maybe thousands of folks, many

520
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,920
at my kitchen table, more zoom
in mentoring.

521
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,000
And by golly, that question
right there shakes a lot of

522
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,080
people a little different.
Yeah, it really makes you think,

523
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,440
right?
Like, what are the things that

524
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,000
bother me the most?
Yeah, that's.

525
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,840
Why should I be doing that?
Yeah, I have whole stories on

526
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,560
that, but I'll let Nick give his
advice.

527
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:41,560
OK, yeah, first on, well, I'm
going to say self reflection

528
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,000
too, but I won't even count that
one because Marnie already said

529
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680
that.
You know, I think finding your

530
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,280
Diamond dogs to bring it back to
Ted Lasso, we call it personal

531
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,480
board of advisors when you, when
we, we talk about, you know, the

532
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,480
business of you, but those
people that will mentor you,

533
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,880
advise you and challenge you,
your, your challenge network,

534
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,720
it's critical.
I mean, I think it's, it's

535
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,480
amazing how often we lean on
other people.

536
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,600
We need other people to kind of
bring out those tough questions

537
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,640
that we were talking about
earlier.

538
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,920
So that that's definitely one
piece of advice.

539
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,720
The other, the other thing I
would say is from the standpoint

540
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,520
of anything that you take on, we
often say you can't lead others

541
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,520
until you lead yourself first.
And I think so many people,

542
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,480
there's so much noise about
their out there in terms of

543
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,000
tactics about how to grow
personally, professionally, that

544
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,760
people just jump straight into
that, you know, thinking that

545
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,040
this is how I should do
something.

546
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,960
You need to focus on yourself
1st, 100%.

547
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,280
You know, I suffered greatly
from imposter syndrome because I

548
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,040
acted.
I, you know, I acted how how I

549
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,000
thought I was supposed to act
instead of being true to myself.

550
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,640
And it led to a real sense of
being a fraud because I wasn't

551
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,040
being who I was right out of the
gate.

552
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,880
That's a big one for.
Our listeners too.

553
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,480
There's a lot of imposter
syndrome floating around out

554
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,280
there.
It's and it's horrible too,

555
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,000
isn't it?
It's.

556
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,080
I think it's terrible.
Yeah, it it really does.

557
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,840
And, you know, to rewind back
2520 years ago, I, that was the,

558
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,280
the biggest, the biggest thing
that still causes me stress to

559
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,680
this day is thinking about, you
know, I was really a fraud.

560
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:37,040
And I I kind of was because I
was acting how I thought other I

561
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,040
was supposed to act instead of
who I was treated.

562
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,040
Myself, kind of like doing what
the parent is telling me to do

563
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,560
so you can get that approval
when really in hindsight, it's

564
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,280
like I'm grown now, yeah.
What was going along with what

565
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,960
your friends are doing in
school?

566
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,640
Right.
There's like, so many books as

567
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,520
this plays out.
Yeah.

568
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,320
No doubt.
And then last, I'll just end it

569
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,560
with just embrace the journey,
right?

570
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,600
It's you know, growth isn't it's
not linear.

571
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,640
I think trust the the same each
step, you know, understand who

572
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,400
you are there.
We all learn.

573
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,800
And I mean everybody says it.
You know, the the story about

574
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,720
the parents says, what did you
fail at today?

575
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,280
Failure is feedback.
It's growth, I think.

576
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,760
I think having a mindset that
that you're not going to be

577
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,880
successful with everything is,
is so critical because with

578
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,160
that, without that mindset,
you're, you've already lost.

579
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,840
You've been defeated for sure.
That overnight success is a

580
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,160
complete anomaly and it is
completely a facade.

581
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,680
It is not something that happens
overnight.

582
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,360
And when it does happen for
people overnight, you know, good

583
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,280
for, great for them.
That is not the typical path.

584
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,760
Yeah, takes 10 years to make an
overnight success.

585
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,520
They think it's. 100 percent,
100%.

586
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,880
Well, thank you both.
We'll have everything in the

587
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,880
show notes so they can get your
books, connect with you, have

588
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,440
conversations, go out and see
your business, all the things

589
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,800
that you're doing.
I really appreciate the

590
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,480
insights, the transparency about
what it's like to shift from

591
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,600
stableness to kind of in this
role where you're like, oh, we

592
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,040
might do this today or we might
do that.

593
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,840
I think, I think people are
scared.

594
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,560
They really are scared of
leaving us to stability.

595
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,400
But you 2 are proof that leaving
that stability leads to growth

596
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,640
and leads to things where like,
I can just see it in both your

597
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,920
faces.
You're so happy and so

598
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,000
passionate about what you're
doing that there's no substitute

599
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,440
for that.
Like you really, you really feel

600
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,520
great.
And you know, that impacts all

601
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,360
parts of your life, that impacts
your family, that impacts, you

602
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,600
know, yourself, all the
different things.

603
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,280
So I'm so grateful for both of
you for coming on the show and

604
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,720
sharing your experiences.
Well thanks for having us,

605
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,240
hopefully you feel the same way
I do.

606
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,840
I tell my husband like I don't
ever want to go back to work

607
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,000
even though I work 4 hours in a
day.

608
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Yeah, I don't, I don't mind
that.

609
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,040
I do not mind that part because
I'm just, I'm, I'm so focused.

610
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,520
You're so focused now.
And yeah, and it's.

611
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840
A lot more like play.
Yeah, exactly.

612
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Well, thank you again for being
on the show.

613
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,400
Thanks so much, Ollie.
Thanks for spending a few

614
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,760
minutes with Holly.
She knows your podcast queue is

615
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,400
packed.
If today's episode sparked an

616
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,600
idea or gave you that extra
nudge of confidence, tap, follow

617
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,280
or subscribe in your favorite
app so you never miss an episode

618
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,560
of Ed Up L&D.
Dropping a quick rating or

619
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,040
review helps more educators and
learning pros discover the show,

620
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,000
too.
Want to keep the conversation

621
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,320
going?
Connect with Holly on LinkedIn

622
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,880
and share your biggest take
away.

623
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,440
She reads every message.
Until next time, keep learning,

624
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,080
keep leading, and keep believing
in your own story.

625
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,240
Talk soon.
Hi, we're ispring, an

626
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,200
international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than

627
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,680
60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online

628
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,160
learning.
Our two flagship solutions are

629
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,880
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