172: The Future Is Built, Not Found: Dr. Jarrett Carter on Designing Equitable Careers with Purpose

Holly Owens (00:00.829)
Hello everyone and welcome to another fantastic episode of EdUp L &D. I'm not gonna lie, I'm not copying Kylie Kelsey's podcast, but I'm so excited to welcome back Jarrett Carter to the show today. Jarrett, welcome back.

Jarrett Carter (00:17.816)
Hey, thank you for having me. I'm really, really excited to be here.

Holly Owens (00:22.885)
I'm excited because we were just talking, you've been on a journey since we last spoke. So why don't you tell us about like what you've done, what you're doing, what the future looks like. Just tell us all the things that you've been you've been doing since you were last on the show. It feels like over a year ago.

Jarrett Carter (00:38.432)
It was a while ago because, and this is going to be the most hilarious marker for me to remember how long, we were discussing Beyonce and Renaissance had just come out. And this is full circle because just a couple of weeks ago, I was at the July 4th Cowboy Carter Show right outside of DC. so they are...

Holly Owens (00:45.907)
That's right!

Holly Owens (00:54.757)
Nice. I'm so glad we can use Beyonce as a marker for when we last chatted.

Jarrett Carter (00:59.966)
Exactly exactly But yeah a lot has changed so in that time I finished my doctorate and you know at that time right major just whoo that was done and You know one of the things that I had to be honest with myself when I finished was that

Holly Owens (01:08.403)
Woohoo!

Jarrett Carter (01:19.614)
We don't talk enough about this. I was excited for a point and then I just like slid into this trough, right? Like in terms of my own mental health and everybody around me was so excited.

was just kind of going through it and what I realized was that I was burnt out and I made a promise to myself back when I was in my doctoral program that you know with with COVID and everything that happened then I kept putting money in savings you know to be able to at some point be able to slow down take a step back from full-time work and you know engage in some work that I think you know are more like passion projects or things that deeply deeply aligned with what I wanted to do. I put that on the back burner because also after I spoke to you I was promoted into a

new role, Associate Vice President of Integrative Learning Design. I think when we spoke before, I had just just started. So we were doing a lot of cool things and I wanted to be a part of it, but we were coming up on two years since I had finished my program and I realized, hey, I didn't quite keep this promise to myself and I think that a lot of the burnout symptoms were there and it wasn't any one person's fault, but I think that, you know,

Holly Owens (02:08.241)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (02:26.348)
My whole career, was, you know, at the same time working full time, was generally taking classes for this, that, or the other. I was often freelancing on the side. I was also active in my different communities outside of work. And during the pandemic, when everybody kind of had that slow down moment, you know, making sourdough bread or what have you, I was taking qualifying exams, which is actually the more stressful part of a doctorate. The dissertation defense, when you get to that stage,

Holly Owens (02:44.168)
you

Holly Owens (02:47.739)
Right. Yep.

Jarrett Carter (02:51.338)
If you've done everything right, that should be a slam dunk, but the qualifying exams are really mind-numbing. So I was working 70 hours a week, plus doing qualifying exams. So I realized that I had to slow down. And so I made a really...

Holly Owens (03:01.895)
Gosh.

Jarrett Carter (03:09.482)
crazy, I think, decision to step away from my role at University of Maryland Global Campus. And it was a difficult decision because that has been the most mission aligned chapter of my career. I'm glad that I was able to stay on as graduate adjunct faculty in the Learning Design and Technology program. So I'm still connected in that way. But I have been engaging in a few different projects. The biggest one being I've started my company. It's called Collaboratix. It's going to hold different

Holly Owens (03:22.195)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (03:26.515)
Bye!

Holly Owens (03:30.013)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (03:38.715)
I love that name by the way. yeah, that's good.

Jarrett Carter (03:39.408)
sub-companies. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, wanted to something that was futuristic but also and you know still stressed the collaborative nature of the work that we do because I think that we are stronger together and I think that it's really important that anything that I do even if I'm doing it solo that I'm still collaborating with people or what-have-you and helping people to work better together so...

A lot going on right now. So, you know, learning and development work we're going to be doing. We're going to be doing leadership coaching, whatever else comes because the life of an entrepreneur means that, you know, I'm not going to immediately say no to a whole lot. Yes.

Holly Owens (04:03.003)
Yeah

Holly Owens (04:15.889)
Right, and you're pivoting very quickly when you're an entrepreneur. You're like, does this just kind of fit and this might be a good to have in my portfolio to share with other people? So I totally understand that. Let's go back to the burnout piece because I think that's a great way to start the episode is being so transparent about everything that you, you, what?

Society puts on us the pressure especially in academia what we need to do in order to be seen as accomplished And I think a lot of that doesn't align with the human experience or definitely does not align with the human experience And I had a similar situation to you when I was at Amazon. I was I was working full-time I have my side hustles. I have this podcast which is a huge passion project of mine and you know taking care of my family and you know dealing with trauma and grief and

and all different kinds of things. it just like my body just literally I'm like, I can't, I just can't do it anymore. I can't tell my mind to keep going. So I think one of the things I wanted to point out is how much it impacts your health and how much it also makes you reflect on what's really important in your life.

Jarrett Carter (05:24.172)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (05:30.446)
Absolutely, I think that oftentimes we're slow to catch burnout too because it could be a lot of a good thing as well, right? That you know, I think sometimes we associate burnout with I don't like what I'm doing therefore, you know, I'm feeling these things but sometimes we overextend ourselves doing a lot of different things that we love and that was the case for me and you know What I've learned is that for me burnout is not something that I can acutely detect when it happens, right? For me, it was a bit of a slow, it was a bit of a slow decline, right?

you know, was slow burn, right? You know, I wasn't sleeping like I should be. You know, I found that, you know, I was spending more money and I realized I was spending the money on like junk food or like, you know, food delivery because I was too tired to cook or what have you. And it wasn't just a time thing, but just even just like...

Holly Owens (06:00.679)
Yeah, like a slow burn. Right.

Jarrett Carter (06:18.635)
my brain's bandwidth to like even think of things, right? Like I would have people approach me about, there's this cool contract opportunity we want to do. Do you have time? And you know, it's something I really wanted to do, but you can't do that while you're in school and you're working full time or what have you. I think for me, one of the wake up calls for me, frankly, to be fully transparent was also, you know, I'm thankful that I have health insurance. And so I go to the doctor, you know, often and was beginning to see that some of my health key

health metrics were not trending in the right direction either, right? And it was, and again, something where my, you know, my doctor was asking me like, are, you know, are there negative things happening, you know, what have you? And I said, I love what I do. You know, I love what my schedule is filled with, but I didn't have good boundaries up, right? And so I just kept saying yes to everything.

Holly Owens (07:05.719)
Like we mask some of those things because we don't want people like in this like you're like a you're an associate VP like there's no possible way you could be burnt out or you could have issues like you do everything and that kind of that's how I think about it.

Jarrett Carter (07:17.58)
Right.

Jarrett Carter (07:23.053)
It is and I think that in our society and you mentioned this earlier of you know We base a lot of our expectations for ourselves and our success around what we do occupationally, right? You know, oftentimes when you meet people especially here in the DC area one of the first questions you're asked is what do do for a living? You know oftentimes right right that comes up so often so funny funny side story I have to tell you speaking of dates and occupation So DC is so unseer

Holly Owens (07:40.923)
or go on a date. Yeah.

Please.

Jarrett Carter (07:53.1)
when it comes to this that when the student loan forgiveness programs were happening during COVID, if you remember, there was an income cap, right? If you made more than $125,000, you know, didn't qualify. One of the subtle questions people began asking on first dates was trying to figure out if your loans were being forgiven or not.

Holly Owens (08:07.857)
Right.

Jarrett Carter (08:15.317)
because if you said, no, I didn't qualify, that meant that you were making good money.

Holly Owens (08:15.997)
my god.

Holly Owens (08:20.753)
Right. That is crazy. I would never in my life think of to ask somebody that and the fact that also too, let's not even get into the qualifications and like if you're making $125,000 that without taxes, that is not how much you're making. But yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy how that, how did student loans become a part of dating culture?

Jarrett Carter (08:26.176)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (08:41.409)
Right, right.

Jarrett Carter (08:46.283)
So it's...

Jarrett Carter (08:51.213)
It's crazy to me. And so, you know, a lot of our identity, you know, is wrapped up in that. And, you know, we never ask the questions when we think about satisfaction in life is like, you know, but also who am I in the ways I show up to my family, to my friends, to my communities, to my neighbors, right? Like those things are just as important. And, you know, of course, you know, the job pays the bills and, you know, this was a transition I had been plotting for a couple of years now because obviously

Holly Owens (08:56.701)
Yep.

Jarrett Carter (09:19.437)
Mission alignment is not currency that I can use to pay my mortgage on the first, but you know...

It had me thinking about the different ways in which we show up and where we derive satisfaction from and you know all the different things that are on our plates, how we measure our success and our productivity. I mean, I think about how often when my friends and I would go to brunch and we would say, was your weekend or whatever and we're measuring our weekends of productivity like, I got through the to-do list. I did this, I cut the grass, I did this. I was just telling you before we started recording.

Holly Owens (09:46.309)
Jarrett, I know.

Are they millennials or elder millennials? Cause I feel like our self-worth is tied to productivity.

Jarrett Carter (09:56.43)
I think millennials, well millennials, we have been like uniquely positioned for all of like the world falling apart. Like we are traumatized. We are traumatized. I don't know why my parents chose my birth year. I feel like that was, my goodness.

Holly Owens (10:05.267)
yeah, we absolutely are.

Holly Owens (10:13.319)
They didn't know, they didn't know. But yeah, it's so interesting that you said that because I work a lot on the weekends with the podcast and stuff. if I have three or four things in my head, if I don't get it done, I feel like I'm behind. But I just have to do that for my own self. But very, very true. We tie a lot of our self-worth to our productivity and a lot of our identity to our roles.

Jarrett Carter (10:36.619)
Yes.

Holly Owens (10:36.627)
Like it's who we are. mean part of my brand is like my whole brand is L &D and jobs and stuff, but that's not all of who I am. And I'm sure you could say the same thing.

Jarrett Carter (10:46.379)
Right?

It is, and that was part of the reason why I thought about this transition is that one thing growing up that my mom always taught me and my siblings is that the whole question of what do you want to be when you grow up in and of itself is a bit problematic because it presumes one thing. It presumes that you're taking one full-time job that will typecast you into your career identity. And people see you singularly through that lens. And part of this transition has been wanting to explore

Holly Owens (11:05.063)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (11:18.267)
a multitude of different things at the same time while still honoring my boundaries and my time and things like that. So, you know, what I'm excited about in particular is like being able to still do things around learning and development, being able to still teach, being able to explore leadership coaching, which is not something that I've even had the time, you know, to put a lot of time into even though I got the certification a couple of years ago. you know, being able to do all those different things and like be

be a little bit more intentional with how I even cultivate my own professional identity. It's something that I'm really excited about versus knowing me as just, that's Jerry. He's an associate VP at this university or he's an adjunct faculty here. I am now many of those things while still trying to balance them all.

Holly Owens (12:00.765)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (12:05.957)
Yeah, you know what though, I mean like if you think about it, like these roles that you've had, including that most recent role too, have prepared you for what you're doing now. So tell us about your new business, what you're focusing on, what you're doing, so that people listening would be like, I need to call Jarrett and get his help with this, this, and this. So tell us all about that. I'm sure we could talk about burnout for days, just so know. Y'all got an insider look into the personal life of me and Jarrett Carter.

Jarrett Carter (12:28.392)
Yes.

Holly Owens (12:35.219)
Because we being honest, we burn out quickly when it comes to all the things that we do. But tell us about your business.

Jarrett Carter (12:42.942)
Absolutely. you know, as I mentioned before, collaboratix is going to hold a few different things. The first part that we're launching with is True Rise Leadership Solutions. And True Rise is looking at, know, how do we, to your point of authenticity, how do we show up as leaders authentically in the work that we do? I spent earlier this summer doing a lot of research on what are some of the challenges, for instance, that for, you know, newly incoming leaders face when they come into the role.

And of course as L &D professionals we can get some of those things, right? The procedural things of, you know, onboarding and, you know, those logistical items. But there's this inner core part that I think that we don't talk enough about, right? Which is like, how do I cultivate my own leadership identity? And, you know, thinking back to when I had my first supervisory role, they were different leaders that I was enamored with, but it almost fueled my own imposter syndrome because I felt like I had to emulate them.

them, right? I had to mimic them, right? And so I come into this role thinking, well, I'm not this person, I'm not that person, how do I show up? you know, coaching for me, getting a coach is one of the best things that my supervisor at the time did for me because it helped me to understand, yes, these are the research-based frameworks for leadership development about how do you...

Holly Owens (13:42.791)
Well said. Absolutely. Yes.

Jarrett Carter (14:06.376)
engender a positive team culture. How do you bring out the best in people? But also how do you do that in a way that is uniquely you, right? And oftentimes we separate who we are outside of work and who we are at work forgetting that we can leverage both in the ways in which we show up, right?

Holly Owens (14:22.099)
Absolutely.

Jarrett Carter (14:23.34)
There are certain ways where, you know, one of the limitations of mentorship and I have a team of mentors. I love my mentors would not be where I am without them. But what I go to them for is a little bit different than what I go to a coach for, right? Because for mentors, I want to hear about how they did what they did and sort of widen my toolkit that way. But when I was working with my coach, it was, okay, these are the frameworks, these are the success stories, but how do we pull the unique things about Jarrett to be able to show up in that work? And so one of

The examples that come to mind is when I first inherited this supervisory role my very first supervisory role I had inherited this high-profile project that was Already way over budget already behind and had already right Exactly and then on top of that I was

Holly Owens (15:08.928)
God, it's like bottom of the ninth two outs and you're up to bat. God.

Jarrett Carter (15:18.216)
I had some stakeholders that, let's just say, there were not positive politics that I inherited, right, in terms of the relationships that I had. So I had to quickly figure it out. And at first, I was trying to, again, mimic what I saw. And it wasn't until my coach said, you know, talk to me about, you know, when you're planning your family's Christmas Eve party and people have differing ideas of what to do. Like, how do you show up then? And what we kind of worked on was then an action plan of like how I was going to build relationships through trust and authenticity, right?

You know, there are certain things I broke the rules on. You know, I am somebody that if I'm on a project or I'm leading a project and if you are somebody that I report to, I'm going to give you the good, the bad, and the ugly, but I am going to tell you how we're addressing the bad and the ugly, right? But I don't want you to hear about it from somebody else. I'd rather you hear it from me. exactly, and sure enough, the assistant dean at the time,

Holly Owens (15:48.593)
Right?

Holly Owens (16:04.861)
Right.

Yeah, here, straight from the-

Jarrett Carter (16:14.688)
Like two months into the meeting, she said, you know, I want you to know that I really appreciate the fact that a lot of people come to my office and are trying to play politics and sugarcoat everything. She said, I appreciate that. I always know where things stand when you leave the office. And so she said, you know, there's a certain trust that she had in me that, you know, she trusted my judgment on certain things where things were happening quickly. We need to make quick decisions. She was on vacation and she said, you know what, let Jarrett make the call.

And so those are things where if I was trying to mimic what I saw other people do, I wouldn't have realized that. the goal of coaching, exactly.

Holly Owens (16:48.881)
You want to got that response or develop that level of trust with the, yeah.

Jarrett Carter (16:54.376)
Exactly. So the goal here is how do we find out the intrinsic characteristics of you as a person, how they show up as a leader, and then the individual ways in which you lead. Of course, bringing in, you know, evidence-based leadership principles, but I think that when you bring those two together, that's how we show up the best as leaders.

Holly Owens (17:14.833)
that and I love the thing you said like I definitely

from a leadership perspective, I know the good ones that I had, and I know the really bad ones, the toxic ones that I had. And I know just from growing up and getting to this point to a director level, I never, like you, it wasn't on my bingo card. It wasn't on my bingo card last year to be the director at Ed Ten Company of Marketing. But I've learned so much in the role with managing my team and taking myself out of the trenches and trying

Jarrett Carter (17:23.424)
Hahaha

Holly Owens (17:48.385)
to do that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. But just seeing people for who they are and meeting them where they're at and taking all that I've learned from my other leaders. Like what are the things that they did well? And I really like that that may align with my mission and may align with my values and the things they didn't do well. We're gonna make sure that there's preventative measures in place that those things don't happen. And I just want to I think I want to ask a question to you because this is something that comes up quite a bit.

Jarrett Carter (18:13.407)
Agreed.

Holly Owens (18:18.053)
Our team is fully remote and your team fully remote, I'm assuming. So that creates more of a challenge in possibly developing some of these relationships, the trust. I'm not gonna assume and say completely just, it doesn't happen because it does. I mean, we've never met in person and you and I are like, know we can text each other and we'll be there for support is what I'm saying. So how do you kind of deal with that as a leader when it's you're remote and you have people everywhere all over the world or,

all over the country. How do you get people to like connect?

Jarrett Carter (18:52.671)
I'm really glad you asked that question because I think that even with the growing hybrid work environments, that's becoming even more of a challenge, right? Because, you know, in my last role, I had a lot of fantastic team members. Some of them were in the building two or three days a week. Some of them had never seen the building before. And so you even have that disparity.

Holly Owens (19:00.498)
yeah.

Holly Owens (19:10.183)
They're like, there's a building?

Jarrett Carter (19:11.869)
Right, right. And so you have that disparity of people that I might see in the hallway and converse with, how do I make sure that the people who are fully remote, that we have a similar rapport with.

Holly Owens (19:23.665)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (19:24.619)
And I have, I can't say that I have totally figured it out, but what I have found that works is that there is no single solution for every team because I think much in the ways that our buildings were not designed uniformly across, you know, different companies, right? Different buildings were designed differently for the culture. I think that our online infrastructure needs to be responsive to,

you know, our team's there, right? So it can be things like, you know, I'm very intentional when I was doing my one-on-ones, particularly with my remote team, to not just, oh, let's just get straight to business, you know, to the extent that they wanted to share about, you know, what they did over the weekend. Well, it requires intentionality, right? Because it's really easy.

Holly Owens (19:59.859)
That's something I do. I gotta stop doing that.

Holly Owens (20:06.675)
Yeah, it does. And that's also authenticity as well. Because you do you I am generally interested in what other people are doing.

Jarrett Carter (20:14.091)
I know you are because like I said, we've never met in person and we know so much about each other's lives that probably more than some people that I see face to face, you know more often and You know, but what I found is that you know even building in that time to say like how was your weekend and you know and not putting them on the spot to make them share more than they wanted to share of course, but you know if they want to talk about you know a track meet that one of their kids had or whatever, you know being you know learning about that and you

Holly Owens (20:17.907)
yeah

Holly Owens (20:24.658)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (20:44.125)
learning the names as they're telling me stories so that you know it became less generic about how's your daughter's track me doing and you know being a little bit more specific to say hey how's how do Kaylee's track me go and then also for myself as well right you know being a little bit more of instead of just saying yeah I had a good weekend you know saying I had a good weekend I was at the cowboy carter concert or I you know I did this or I did that and helping people always anytime

Holly Owens (20:53.299)
Right.

Holly Owens (21:07.431)
We're always going to work Beyonce into our episodes, just so you know, every single time.

Jarrett Carter (21:12.427)
When the Act 3 album comes out, I'll be back and I will work in some sort of rock music influencer, what have you. But yeah, like helping people to see, you know, who I am. So it was to the point that, you know, there was one remote team member I had where we actually intentionally extended our one-on-ones to be a little bit longer because I had to recognize that, you know, as much as I say, I'm just a team's chat away, you know, we were in the building and you see my door is open, you're more likely to walk in and ask me a question than you are.

Holly Owens (21:15.45)
Yeah

Jarrett Carter (21:42.536)
if you see that my team's icon is showing green and it's just like, well.

Is he actually free? You know, is he doing this or is he doing that? So I think that in the same whole truth for the team, team wide as well, right? There are some teams that I've led where early in the pandemic where we would do virtual happy hours or we would do game nights or what have you. And then I shifted and began managing another team. And a lot of them that was harder to do because that's when their kids were getting off of school and they needed to go get their kids from the school bus. So we would do maybe lunchtime socials or early morning socials. it.

I think that again, I think it's one of those things where you kind of have to learn your team and see like what they respond well to and then kind of like that positive reinforcement just keep doing more of that but it's something that I think we have to be really intentional about and I think hybrid is going to add to that delicacy of that balance even more because now you have people that you're seeing in the building and that you don't

Holly Owens (22:35.474)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (22:39.505)
Yeah, it definitely is a huge challenge, but you can definitely feel the connection through the screen. People are like, you can't feel that. I totally feel it. Some of my very best friends that I collaborate with daily, weekly come from LinkedIn World. Maybe I should have you talk. Since you went from, got your supervisor role, you were an associate VP, now you're starting your own business. Talk to us about how important it is to network and how that helps you get to

Jarrett Carter (22:45.065)
Yes.

Holly Owens (23:09.429)
this point in your life where you're like, you feel good enough about yourself and you have the confidence and you push the imposter syndrome aside. How do you get there? How do you do that?

Jarrett Carter (23:21.117)
It is so funny you said that because I'm actually so by the time this records everything will be fully online but I'm refining a couple of content pieces that I'm gonna be posting and one of them is

You have to give people the opportunity to help you, right? And I think that it's so easy for us sometimes to feel like, I'm doing this thing. I'm waiting for somebody to come save you or come help me. But if we don't invite people in and tell them what we're doing, they're never going to have the opportunity to help. And networking has been my Achilles heel for the longest time, because again, it was something where, you know, I was taking my cues from salespeople, right? And so, you know, in my authenticity self, I struggle.

Holly Owens (23:46.993)
Right.

Holly Owens (24:00.306)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (24:04.503)
with reaching out and pretending that I was really just thinking about you and the truth is I'm trying to make a deal, right? And so it was something that I struggled with until, again, kind of the same coaching frameworks took some time to step back and reflect on, okay, outside of work, if I need something, if I need to network, how do I manage my relationships, right? And, you know, one of those things is, for instance, like my friends know that, you know, I'm not always quick to text back because I just can't, but

Holly Owens (24:33.915)
I know, like, I mean, know your, mine is, it's like sitting right here and like people, I'm like, when I'm free, it's not going off. When I'm in a podcast recording, my sister's calling me, telling me that she's excited to see me because she's on the way down to the Southeast. And I'm like, you had to call me for that, right? So like those distractions, like, that's a conversation for another day. But yeah, networking, it, yeah.

Jarrett Carter (24:34.398)
But I am.

Jarrett Carter (24:38.948)
Right.

Jarrett Carter (24:52.712)
Right, right.

Jarrett Carter (24:58.814)
That's a whole conversation in and of itself. But I was thinking about then, so what with my friends, how do I network, right? You know, take away the business side of it. And I'm the friend though that will send you a random text at like two in the afternoon and say, hey, I was just thinking about you, all is well. And there's no, thank you. But.

Holly Owens (25:06.834)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (25:16.133)
I love those texts from you by the way. That was such a good idea.

Jarrett Carter (25:21.028)
It honors my authenticity of in that moment. I really didn't want anything but as bernad brown would say, you know, you're you're putting Gems in the jar, right or you're putting those pebbles in the jar, right? So that when I do reach out and i'm a little bit more upfront about like hey How are you doing? I just started a business and I was wondering if you had any connects here Because I was cultivating those relationships all along the way I can then more authentically reach out versus, you know, i'm sure you get this all the time on linkedin

Holly Owens (25:50.194)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (25:51.005)
the people saying, hey I just want to pick your brain for five minutes and then they're pitching a half million dollar product and saying, you know, how soon can you contract this? And I'm saying, there's a whole budgeting season for this, you know. So I've learned that again it's one of those things that like it's super important but it doesn't mean that you have to do it in the ways that you've seen other people do it. And I might get in trouble with this with some of my colleagues but you know who a good brainstorming partner is to figure out your approach?

Holly Owens (25:58.417)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (26:03.814)
right.

Holly Owens (26:19.379)
Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (26:20.884)
chat GPT. I... Because what I still struggle with.

Holly Owens (26:21.989)
Yes, I agree with you. I will not disagree with that. I mean, I'm not gonna get to the point like that guy that asked Chachi PT to marry him. I mean, we have a really good rapport with each other, but no.

Jarrett Carter (26:31.262)
No.

Jarrett Carter (26:35.112)
Yeah, we have a good rapport. know, chat chief refers me by my first name. I love even the audio. Like, I can brainstorm in the car using Bluetooth and we'll just be conversing back and forth. I love it. But I will tell it, like, based on everything you know about me, this is, you know, there's this networking reception I'm going to. You know, I hate these. What are some things, right? And it gave me a lot of actually really good advice that was contextual to the event that I was going to. So now...

I'm a little bit more open about going to some of these networking things and then you realize you get out of your head and you realize that the majority of people want to help, right? And the majority of people want to hear from you. Absolutely.

Holly Owens (27:09.819)
Yeah, or they know somebody that knows somebody, they're gonna connect you to something else. Yeah, I think we just, the fear so much. Then to that, like, just getting started, just have a little chat. But going back to the LinkedIn message that Sharon, you would not believe the cesspool of, dare I say shit, that I get in my LinkedIn messages. Jen will have to edit that out or bleep it or whatever, but.

Jarrett Carter (27:32.881)
yes.

Holly Owens (27:36.659)
I think the other part of networking is making sure that you understand where the other person is coming from and what their journey has been because like at least five times a week if not more I get, can you review my resume? And they don't even say hi.

Jarrett Carter (27:44.105)
you

Holly Owens (27:54.491)
or can you provide us some support with, you know, we're starting a new ed tech company, can you, you know, and then they went my services for free. And I'm like, that's my time. That's sorry, the puppies. I was like, that's my time.

Jarrett Carter (27:54.577)
Mm-hmm.

Jarrett Carter (28:06.013)
rights.

Holly Owens (28:11.263)
And I cannot, dare I say hate, I totally dislike the fact that people, number one, they don't honor your time. Number two, they don't even think about compensation. And number three, when they do compensate you, some people don't pay you on time.

Jarrett Carter (28:11.418)
Exactly.

Jarrett Carter (28:28.286)
They don't, and one of the things that I've learned too, and this is a little hack that I've learned when people come to me with those kinds of things, because to your point, you know, I've had people out of the blue that I haven't spoken to in years, ask, I need a letter of reference for this particular job. when is it needed? this weekend.

Holly Owens (28:45.031)
Today. Tomorrow. Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (28:46.546)
Right and I'm sitting here thinking like put yourself in the other person's shoes for a moment, right? Like I was just coming back from a conference I was already behind on this that and the third but one of the things that I've also done even in terms of like when I am able to help right is giving people an action item to show that they're actually invested in this too because one of the things that I found is that sometimes people reach out and they want all this free advice they want all this but they're really just kind of mining they're not actually doing anything with it, right? So to your point on

Holly Owens (28:55.57)
Right.

Holly Owens (29:14.952)
Great.

Jarrett Carter (29:16.5)
the resume review, I've had a couple of like, you know, maybe like a friend of a family member or somebody like that reach out and right, but then what I'll say though, even then is, hey here's a cool article on like these are the key things that your resume needs to include first of all. This is a resume template that I've used. Go back, apply that, and then let's talk. When I tell you that 90 % of the time they don't come back...

Holly Owens (29:23.303)
That's fine, because they know us, but...

Holly Owens (29:35.495)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (29:42.312)
yeah.

Jarrett Carter (29:44.362)
But you have to be, to your point, have to be respectful of other people's time. People want to help, but you have to help them help you. Don't make somebody a reference. Right, right.

Holly Owens (29:45.372)
You gotta... Right.

they have to help themselves first.

Jarrett Carter (29:54.654)
Don't make somebody a reference for a job and then I get this random, you know, 202 number calling me and I'm in Trader Joe's thinking that that's, you know, my dry cleaner saying that my clothes are ready and then it's saying so and so is applying for a job and they answer me all these questions and then first I'm trying to understand what is the job, who is this reference for, like, it's little things, like little considerate things like that that is just help, help them help you.

Holly Owens (30:00.977)
Ha ha ha ha!

yeah.

Holly Owens (30:21.425)
Yes, exactly. Help them help you for sure. And I think it's, you know, I know, we are not the saviors. As much as I want to be like a saint or whatever, like I can give you all the advice in the world. I can share all the resources and I love sharing resources and crowdsourcing and all that stuff.

Jarrett Carter (30:30.065)
No.

Holly Owens (30:41.723)
What I cannot do for you is do the work for you to get to the point where you need to be. I love being the person that you think of when you need some support. I love being that person and I will be here to listen to you, but I am not gonna be the person that is responsible for doing the work for you. And if I am doing some of the work for you in support, you're gonna pay me. That's always such a hard conversation. Right, right, right, yeah.

Jarrett Carter (30:57.744)
Exactly.

Exactly, Because they would want it the other way around as well, right? you're asking people to provide, for one thing, if I'm quickly spitting out advice.

Holly Owens (31:14.547)
This is real talk episode. I'm putting real talk at the beginning of this episode. Me too.

Jarrett Carter (31:17.479)
This is real talk and I love it because I think there's also the fact that even if I'm able to do something quickly, you're not paying me just for the time that it took me to do it, but all the energy that I put in perfecting my craft to be able to get to the point that I can quickly spit out certain things, right? And so...

Holly Owens (31:32.509)
Yep.

Jarrett Carter (31:33.895)
you know, when you get into the place of like people doing the work for you or these really detailed asks, you know, it's not fair to expect people to do that for free because understand too that that's time that I'm taking away from either my career, that's time I'm taking away if I could be at the gym, you know, that I could be with my family, that I can be with friends or what have you. And so I have to be also very intentional in where I shift my time.

Holly Owens (32:02.259)
I, for sure, for sure. Oh my gosh, we could probably talk about this all day long. I don't know your own business. It's like, it's like enlightening every time we talk. Like, I don't even feel like we're recording a podcast episode. I feel like we're sitting here just talking to each other. I'm drinking my little protein milkshake and we're just hanging out talking about Beyonce and, you know, being entrepreneurs and all that stuff.

Jarrett Carter (32:08.212)
I know. I feel like every time we talk.

Holly Owens (32:25.203)
We're coming up on the end of the episode as sad as I am about that, I have a feeling those who are listening right now, they want more. So we're going to leave them wanting more from you, Jarrett, and they can reach out to you. So people who are thinking about, you know, I love transitioning teachers. I am a transition teacher. And they're thinking about possibly starting a career in learning and development or maybe possibly going out on their own. What are three pieces of advice you've already given some that you have for them to get started? And I'm really sorry that my puppy is playing with his

duck toy that sounds like it's dying. So what are your three pieces of advice, Jarrett? Tell us what they are.

Jarrett Carter (32:56.743)
Hehehehehe

So number one, know, derive a little bit of a derivative of something I had said earlier is that we are...

Entire complex human beings and I think that oftentimes our imposter syndrome comes in because we're trying to see ourself in this fixed capacity and we don't and we miss the force for the trees of seeing who we are totally if you are the family planner for all the family reunions and the Christmas holiday parties and what have you you have project management skills, right if you are often the one that's mediating

family disputes or whatever, that's conflict resolution, that's leadership, right? And so think about how you show up as a totality of yourself and then advocate for yourself from there, right? A lot of times, when I talk to transitioning teachers, they're looking at, well, the job description says this, I haven't done that, when the reality of it is that I could never, I did one field work placement in an elementary school and that killed all of my dreams of being an elementary school teacher.

Holly Owens (33:38.887)
Yep.

Holly Owens (33:59.187)
Give me a minute to say it. Yeah.

Jarrett Carter (34:03.718)
And so I have, you know, I've hired transitioning teachers and they have been fantastic. But the one thing I've seen in interviews oftentimes is again, like sort of trying to do a one-to-one transfer thinking that because my experience doesn't match the letter of what you have in the job description, it's not there. I promise you it's there. The next bit of advice I would say is, you know, get out there and talk to people. You know, there are a lot of people who I think are on similar journeys. You know, even myself with this business, I have...

A few people that I've been talking to and we've been accountability buddies with each other sharing back and forth resources The reality of it is that there is room in the pie for all of us to eat We don't have to compete with others or what have you so, you know network, you know find find your people find the people who will encourage you at parts where you may be discouraged and the last thing that I will say is Think creatively about again how you how you present yourself how your how you search for jobs,

AI is changing a whole lot in terms of even the ways in which we customize our resumes. We could do a whole series on AI. But I feel like the audience right now is also getting a glimpse into what our phone calls sound like because we could we've literally been on the phone for like two or three hours and probably could have recorded like 12 episodes.

Holly Owens (35:04.435)
We didn't even get into AI, Jarrett. We didn't even... I KNOW! We didn't even get into that part.

Holly Owens (35:17.171)
or

Holly Owens (35:23.059)
Yes, absolutely. I think we should do it more. First of all, I want to say I admire you. And I'm not just saying that because we're on air and recording. I truly admire you. I know you reached out to me like it was back in February or March. And I was having a really bad day that day. And you reached out and said hello. And that changed my whole day. It's like literally just a text message from a friend saying, hey, I'm thinking about you. It changed my whole perspective over the day. And I had a better day after that.

I was like, thank God for Jarrett because I was about to hurt somebody.

Jarrett Carter (35:51.816)
So.

Jarrett Carter (35:56.723)
Thank you. Well now I need to reciprocate and tell you something. You did that. I don't know that I told you you did for me too that made a big deal. You texted me the week after I put in my notice at my job, right? And you know, as I said, you know, I have a lot of fun feelings for UMGC. You know, it was a difficult decision. But I began to get into my head a little bit once because there's something about putting in a resignation letter that like you begin pressure testing your whole plan. And I said, nobody's going to want to work with me anymore because, you know,

I'm just this freelancer now before like it meant something that I was in this role So when you had texted me and you said how are you doing? And I said, know, I told you that I was leaving or whatever and then you still said I want you on the podcast and I said just so you know, I won't be working I'm not gonna have this fancy title when

Holly Owens (36:39.539)
I don't care.

Jarrett Carter (36:42.217)
I, you know, when we were recording, you were said, no, that's why I want to have you here. And I think that again, in a place like DC where our job titles are currency, our job titles are even currency, going back to dating, like that's a whole nother thing when you explain, I had to explain what I do now on a date. That was actually incredibly validating and that picked me up for like the rest of the week. So I'm so glad that we're connected like this.

Holly Owens (36:56.467)
You

Holly Owens (37:03.109)
so glad. I don't care what your title is. You're going to come on the podcast because it's going to be a freaking awesome. This is a great episode. There's so much packed into this like 30 minutes that we chatted that people can take away that's going to resonate with them. So tell people where they can connect with you. Where can they find you, Jarrett? We're going to have everything in the show notes. Send us the website to your business. We want to have it all there. So tell the audience where they can find you.

Jarrett Carter (37:23.24)
Mm-hmm.

Jarrett Carter (37:30.249)
So first of all, LinkedIn is like, and that's, I think it's where you and I first even got to meet each other, right? So LinkedIn, I'm going to become more active there again. So you can find me at Jarrett Carter.

Holly Owens (37:35.228)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (37:39.827)
You

Jarrett Carter (37:42.651)
You can find me also at jaredcarter.com which will have links to collaboratix to true rise leadership solutions I am also getting into my content creator bag as the kids would say so I If you find me on instagram, it's all dr. Jar car I might be reading that afterwards, but it should redirect. there's gonna be more content i'm gonna begin posting there as well I did my test run did the shitty first draft. over the weekend. I just did a

Holly Owens (37:55.537)
Ha ha ha ha!

Holly Owens (38:10.259)
Ha

Jarrett Carter (38:12.507)
point of view video of me making macaroni and cheese for a game night just to see how all the apps work and it came together so we're there's gonna be in the month of August there's gonna be daily posts on some daily reflections as I get ready to hit a semi-milestone year

Holly Owens (38:16.082)
Yeah.

Holly Owens (38:19.655)
That's awesome.

Holly Owens (38:25.019)
I can't wait. I gotta find your Instagram. I can't wait. Well, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure talking to you. It's always uplifting and enlightening and like, know, truth bombs. Like we need the real talk. Like there's so many times where I could have used some real talk instead of some sugarcoating just to provide perspective. So thank you for being my friend, being on my show and.

Jarrett Carter (38:31.772)
Likewise.

Holly Owens (38:48.659)
I never care what your title is. All kinds of people who walks the live come on this show and everybody has a story to share. So I'm so glad you were able to come back and talk about where you're at.

Jarrett Carter (38:59.081)
Thank you, thank you.