168: Smarter, Faster, More Human: Fred Thompson on Designing the Future of Learning

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Hi everyone, and welcome back to
another episode of Edup Learning

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and Development.
I'm your host, Holly Owens, and

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today we're diving into the
intersection of technology,

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innovation, and learning with a
truly inspirational guest, Fred

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Thompson, founder of Thirst dot
IO.

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Fred's journey from software
development to the world of

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learning and development is not
only fascinating, it's packed

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with powerful lessons.
In this episode, we explore the

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real challenges L&D
professionals face today, why

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personalization matters more
than ever, and how AI is rapidly

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reshaping the educational
landscape.

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Fred also gives us a behind the
scenes look at how thirst is

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tackling these challenges head
on.

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And if you're an aspiring
entrepreneur entrepreneur,

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you'll definitely want to tune
into the part where he talks

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about building teams, trusting
talent, and leading with vision.

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So whether you're an L&D Ed tech
or just curious about the future

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of learning, this conversation
is for you.

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Let's get into it.
Hi, we're ispring, an

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international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than

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60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online

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learning.
Our two flagship solutions are

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ispring Suite and ispring Learn
LMS.

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Ispring Suite is an intuitive,
all in one authoring tool for

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creating engaging e-learning
content, and ispringlearn is an

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innovative online training
platform for onboarding,

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upskilling, and certifying your
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We also provide tons of free
resources for aspiring and

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experienced e-learning
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We'd be happy to get to know you
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your needs best.
Go to www.icebringsolutions.com

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to learn more about us, download
our resources and connect.

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Hello everyone, and welcome to
another fabulous episode of Ed

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Up Learning and Development.
My name is Holly Owens and I'm

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your host and I'm super excited
today because I have Fred

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Thompson here.
I'm going to let him talk about

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himself.
So, Fred, welcome on into the

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show.
Yeah, Thanks for having me here,

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Holly.
Really excited about today.

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It's always strange when you're
sort of prompted to to talk

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about yourself a little bit.
You never know quite where to

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start.
Yeah.

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So tell us your story.
How did you get into like

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thirst, all the different things
that you're doing?

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Give us the low down.
Yeah, I mean, it's always

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strange.
You look back as well and think,

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how do you get here?
And you're never quite sure my

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background and history.
Sort of we're going back, you

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know, a couple of decades, which
is worrying, isn't it, when we

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think about it.
Yeah, I know when we when we

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think about it out loud,
software development has always

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been my thing.
The background is my, I'm a

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programmer by by the nature and
by trade.

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But ultimately that's where I
started building out and sort of

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fell into L and DA little bit in
terms of building out Macromedia

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Flash courses and things in all
the way back in the day.

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This was before the Adobe sort
of bought it and then building

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into learning management
systems, etcetera.

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And then just really branching
from there.

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And over time, as we've
progressed, it's been a case of,

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well, I'm not as good at the
programme as I once was or I

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like to think I was started
bringing in people to help me

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around, around and about as the
businesses kind of grew and

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said, OK, we've got more to do
here.

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And then as a result of that,
we've sort of been done over 2

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decades in the L&D space really
assisting businesses to put

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together learning, but using
technology to effectively

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deliver that.
So anything training, anything

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sort of learning management
system connected or learning

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platform connected, but we're
talking about anything it

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connects to like API systems,
external talking about the

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strategies around that.
And yeah, we we focus, we are

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primarily sort of you know tech
focused as a business, but with

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the background knowledge really
of the space of knowing, but

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probably most things there are
to know now in L&D really.

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I mean, it's so it's, it's so
nice to hear of a journey like

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you started out like in history,
like a lot of us started in

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different places.
Like I was a high school teacher

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and then you kind of found like
where your passion, where your

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niche was and you just went for
it because you're not just the

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founder of Thirst.
And if you haven't seen Thirst,

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you're, you're probably not on
LinkedIn a lot because their

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marketing is amazing.
And you've, you've definitely

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seen Barry post a lot of stuff
out there.

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He's their marketing director.
And if you haven't heard of

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thirst, you need to go hear of
thirst now.

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You need to go out to their
site.

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So being as that, you know, the
journey has been one that's been

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of different opportunities,
different things for you.

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When you think about the L&D
space, what do you think are

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some of the, the greatest
challenges for us?

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And like how it currently is
like the things happening with

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AI and, and all those things
that are kind of impacting our

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industry.
I think it's kind of the same

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across many industries and not
just L&D.

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And I think L&D has typically
been a little bit historically

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behind in terms of just trying
to make sure it moves forward.

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And you know, I touched upon Mac
Media Flash there, but I mean

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we're still sort of using SCORM
courses and things like that and

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the, the early standards and we
didn't even move forward into

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the X API things really that
that well.

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So we've always been a little
bit backward thinking as a, as a

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sector, but you know, with this
new technologies that are

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current, you know, we talk about
AI loads, we've done quite a lot

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of that, but it's, it's so fast
moving.

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You can't quite even even if
you're not thinking about L&D

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and you're just trying to keep
up with the news, the latest

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sort of technology enhancements
there, you can't really do that.

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I went to an Amazon Web Services
conference where they would, I

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think the guys Anthropic were
there who was one of the AI

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providers and they were talking
about a new standard that they

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got.
And they said, oh, this, this

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standard's actually changed
since last time we presented it.

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And I think I went in, I don't
know, it was like April and they

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said we last presented it in
February.

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Within like 45 days.
It was completely different.

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So you sort of roll that into
what we're doing at L&D Space

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and try to keep up with that.
It's mind boggling.

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I think though, in regards to
that, the the the greatest

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challenges we have are around
getting learning to the people

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and the places they are and how
they want to inter operate with

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it.
So, you know, if you're using a

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lot of the AI tool in note, it's
almost become a conversational

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kind of piece where you're not
browsing the web for pages

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anymore.
You're not going to find that

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learning content in the same
way.

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It's either being surfaced to
you or it's kind of answering

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direct questions or giving you
guidance and personalized advice

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around that.
So it's how do we restructure

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how training and learning is
presented back to the learner in

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a way that kind of matches what
effectively this this future of

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kind of connected technologies
look like.

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It's going to be fun.
It's going to be, it's going to

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be rough, I think for a while.
Yeah, I agree with you 100%.

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So tell us about thirst.
Like what it, what is thirst?

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What do you do?
How do you help people in the

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L&D space and tell us all about
it.

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Tell us what it what you're up
to.

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Yeah, no problem.
Well, when we built first we

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sort of spotted the gap in the
market for trying to use some of

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these technologies to start.
We're trying to.

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So we baked in personalisation
right from all the way through

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the product.
So everything you do in there

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is, is surfacing the right
latest information that's

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relevant to you and we're sort
of accounting for everything

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that you do.
So every sort of interaction

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like comment, share, if you're
certain authors or certain

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content types where we're
forming that opinion of what

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content and then that gets
surfaced to at the right point.

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We also baked in skills
completely from the ground up,

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which again, depending whether
you know you're learning

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platforms or not, you know you,
they tended to be an

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afterthought.
And a lot of the more kind of

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previous incarnations of
learning platforms tacked on the

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end.
We reversed that and said we're

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going to start there, which
meant we sort of was forward

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thinking from the get go in
terms of what the future of L&D

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looks like, the future of just
business really on how it's

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going to train and hire people.
And then obviously we sort of

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rolled that way from the AI side
as well, which is made that

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we've put some really nice
features and functionality in

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there as well.
But one of our core method

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messages really is just making
the platform that we started off

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with a messaging which was a
platform you want to use because

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we found a lot of learning
platforms.

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You almost need a training
program to use the platform.

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It's too difficult, you know,
you couldn't quite training.

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Programs like.
This is it.

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Intermediate Advanced.
Yeah.

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And nothing felt intuitive
either.

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You'd sort of go off and the
administration area was

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somewhere else and it looked
very different.

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And, and that was, we came at it
completely fresh and said, OK,

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we're going to build these
latest technologies and tools in

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there.
We're going to come from

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schools, from the from the
ground up.

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And we're also going to make it
very usable.

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And then we also lay it in like
a social learning piece as well.

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So there's a lot around tacit
knowledge sharing.

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By default, everybody in first
can actually create content and

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service it to their colleagues
in the business as well.

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So that means you're getting,
especially for your sort of SME

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size of business, it's brilliant
because you've got smaller L&D

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teams or sometimes non existent
teams.

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And it means that other people
in the business can effectively

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still facilitate training with
the organization, get the right

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knowledge to the right people
without it sort of being

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bottlenecked by, you know, a
smaller team size or whatever

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that it might be.
So yeah, that's the other

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problems we're solving, and
solving them pretty nicely at

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the moment.
That's good.

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You know, I love it.
Like I said, I love your

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marketing.
I love what you're doing.

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And you know, I think that one
of the things that's come out of

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like AI is this more
personalized learning experience

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instead of like just everybody
does the same thing through the

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whole semester, the whole
training or things like that.

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Like you're meeting people where
they're at in terms like, I

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wouldn't want to sit through a
training where it talks about

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instructional design, theories
and methodologies.

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I already know all this stuff.
I want to sit there training

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where it's something that's
instant application.

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I can instantly use it.
So what do you think about the

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more personalized learning
experience in house?

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There's kind of implementing
that.

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I think it's critical, I think I
mean, I don't have to study

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percentages to hand, but there's
some great studies which show

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effect about the effectiveness
of personalized learning and how

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that sort of impacts people's
retention and ability to kind of

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learn.
I think it's funny again and you

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what you started to kind of kind
of podcast around the questions

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around how technology sort of
shaping that.

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And I sort of remember it was
probably only four years ago or

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so.
So where they were basically we

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couldn't quite I think was
filtered, the company filtered.

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We're trying to actually sort of
personalize the the content and

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trying to establish and
understand the content and map

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that to skill levels and certain
types of skills.

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And they were having real
challenges with that at that

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point and trying to trying to
make it work really, really

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well.
And then obviously the AI side

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came into that and all of a
sudden it just sort of replaced

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that problem with just a
solution straight away.

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Just there you go, we can do
that now, which is formidable.

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And when you then team up with
the personalisation side, that

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automatic mapping of content,
basically if you can get that

229
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,080
established level of skill level
as well of that content, then it

230
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,880
just changes it again.
And so yeah, personalized

231
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,720
learning journeys, like
personalized journey through.

232
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,760
And we're taking into account,
we're trying to take into

233
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,400
account everything.
So it can even be, you know,

234
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,000
what content source it's coming
from, if there's a certain

235
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,280
author within your organization
who you kind of follow or aspire

236
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,160
to kind of look towards for a
career pathway that can also do

237
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,160
that.
But it's also factoring in, you

238
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,240
know, the more basic elements
like what skills you're seeking

239
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,120
and things like that.
All that combined, you get a lot

240
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,480
more just impact of the delivery
of the of the training really.

241
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,240
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm just thinking it back,

242
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,280
like, remember how much time we
would spend on doing things like

243
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,120
descriptions and building out
content now?

244
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,560
Tagging, Tagging content, yeah,
yes.

245
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,560
And tagging content it I just,
it just literally like shifted

246
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,760
overnight.
I love it though, because I feel

247
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,200
like, you know, AI and some,
some other tools have really

248
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,120
allowed us to be instructional
designers or LMD professionals

249
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,160
and jump into the creative
space.

250
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,680
Now like we get, we get really
like caught up in some of the

251
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,600
administrative tasks that take
like they're very time

252
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,200
consuming.
They might be small tasks, but

253
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,160
they become very time consuming.
And I'm thinking of like when

254
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,080
you're building a coursing or
you're building a workshop or

255
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,280
something and you have to
outline everything and then you

256
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,200
have to design it and then you
got to deploy it and all that

257
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,120
stuff.
But really like pieces of that

258
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:07,360
have have changed because of AI.
And I feel like I can really sit

259
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,680
in a creative space now and
think about other things I could

260
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,320
do during the live workshop that
are going to impact the learner,

261
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,320
engage them or offer pieces of
advice or scenarios during that

262
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:20,800
training.
Yeah.

263
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,720
It's part of the.
Yeah, it's part of the L&D

264
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,840
Unleashed event that we were
talking about before.

265
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:26,920
Can I ask?
About.

266
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,400
That yeah, it's we did.
I trusted myself in a live demo

267
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,840
of how to use AI as your
copilot, which is always quite

268
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,560
dangerous.
It worked all right, actually

269
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,880
largely speaking.
But what we were doing is we

270
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,720
were just giving it information
and using some of the sort of

271
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,160
reasoning models that are there
now and saying can you kind of

272
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,720
give me the job roles that this
business?

273
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,960
And we would name the business
and give it some, some pointers

274
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,040
on the web, you know, to a
website and it would go off and

275
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,200
try and bring back the list of
probable job roles.

276
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,400
And it would look at the job
positions that are on its

277
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,240
careers page and trying to map
them back.

278
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,320
And then we extended that out
and said, well, can you give me

279
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,280
the skills of these job roles?
Then can you give me the tiers

280
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,720
of the job roles and how the
tiers mapped?

281
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,760
And we basically built skills,
matrices and frameworks out of

282
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,520
it by just pointing it to the
direction of business

283
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,360
information and sort of asking
questions.

284
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,240
And then even took that further
and said, OK, where's the skill

285
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,120
gaps that we need?
And also can you give me some

286
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,920
titles?
Can you give me a strategy to

287
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,360
teach that skill gap to sort of
to close that gap?

288
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,360
You know, we're not going as far
as creating all the content

289
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,720
here.
And part of the talk as well was

290
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,800
this doesn't replace, you know,
instructors, design or L&D kind

291
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,480
of professionals.
A piece of it, yeah.

292
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,640
People are so nervous about
that, Fred.

293
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,320
They're so they're, they're like
nervous to a point where it's

294
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,480
like it's, it's really
negatively impacting their view

295
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,120
of the tool and how to use it.
Yeah, almost a bit scared that

296
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,040
it's going to replace their
jobs.

297
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,120
So they're kind of trying to
ignore it.

298
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,880
Yeah, we know kind of the human
connection in L&D is so

299
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,560
important anyway and there's a
lot of that side of it that

300
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,640
really still matters.
But you can't simply replace

301
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,160
that knowledge either.
And we are sort of saying it's

302
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,520
more of accelerant.
It's kind of like it's what you

303
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,240
talked about there, which is
that kind of yet stuck in the

304
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,400
mundane, in the kind of
administrative side.

305
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,480
Well, all of a sudden you can
just clear a lot of that and

306
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,240
actually really focus on where
the added value is.

307
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,360
And that's really exciting.
I think it's going to be

308
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,920
challenging to make sure
everybody understands how to use

309
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,000
it because it's a brand new
skill, prompt engineering,

310
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,480
etcetera.
And then also having the

311
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,600
businesses and organisations
approve its use because there's

312
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,400
data protection elements to
that.

313
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,200
But I think I've referenced this
a few times.

314
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,360
I think it's like when everybody
was moving to the cloud sort of

315
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,680
whatever it was 10 years ago and
everyone's really scared of it

316
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,840
and it was like we can't do it.
And you know, it's there's

317
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,400
problems with security and
safety and then we're just all

318
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,320
there now and it sort of went
away.

319
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,080
And I kind of feel that's where
we're at.

320
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,560
We're at that early stage, only
a few years into this journey on

321
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,440
on that new tech side.
I think in sort of Fast forward

322
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,360
in the five years, it'll become
so ubiquitous.

323
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,640
We never understood how we.
Won't even notice.

324
00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,920
It's just gonna be there.
Yeah.

325
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,440
Like it's, it's just a part of
everything that we do.

326
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,480
Absolutely.
I think that's 100% going to

327
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,360
happen.
And whether people like it or

328
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,840
not, like these technologies,
like the cloud and stuff,

329
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,320
that's, that's the norm, that
becomes the norm for everything.

330
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,800
That's what you should be using
to save your stuff on.

331
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,360
And my grandparents are in
their, their mid 80s.

332
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,960
They're like, where is this
cloud?

333
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,720
And I'm like, it's not a cloud.
It's not a cloud in the sky.

334
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,400
It's, it's out on a server
somewhere.

335
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,000
So you know.
I do have sympathy though, a

336
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,520
little bit with.
With I mean.

337
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,840
Yeah, I'm, I'm certainly getting
older.

338
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,520
I mean, as we all are, we don't
go backwards.

339
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,000
But I mean, we've lived through
quite a, a generational kind of

340
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,280
shift in terms of technology.
But you kind of imagine, you

341
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,400
know, our parents and what
they've had to kind of come from

342
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,160
from almost not having, you
know, you know, televisions and

343
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,800
microwaves would just be coming
out as a as a thing that even

344
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,160
existed.
And then to suddenly dealing

345
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,240
with AI, the shift in their
lifestyle lifetime.

346
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,920
Is it incredible, isn't it, to
try and understand?

347
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,720
It really is.
But they have me, so they're

348
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:58,680
fine.
I mean, they have.

349
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,200
IPads, they have smart.
TV's, every time I go there, my

350
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,680
grandfather has a list of
technologies he with things he

351
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,200
wants to learn.
So they're fine.

352
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,200
They can operate, you know,
better than some some other

353
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,920
people I know.
But yeah, I really do have the

354
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,920
the empathy for for the process.
Like when I was growing up, the

355
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,640
Internet was just coming out and
chat rooms were like the big

356
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,720
thing.
Like I remember we got our first

357
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,640
computer.
It was a Gateway computer in the

358
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,040
United States.
And if you know gateway, it's

359
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,560
like you rent those computers
and we just sat there, couldn't

360
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,240
use the phone when you're on the
Internet.

361
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,680
You know, we've been through
that stuff, which is really cool

362
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,120
because I, I think it sets like
the foundation of what we know,

363
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,040
like kind of learning long
division before, you know, short

364
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,440
division.
So it really gives you that

365
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,040
perspective.
And like these kids nowadays,

366
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,040
these, these, these young UNS,
as we say in the South, they

367
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:56,400
have no idea, no idea what it
was like to like not have a cell

368
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,680
phone with you all the time,
like coming home when the

369
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,640
streets St. lights turn on.
They have no idea.

370
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:04,320
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.

371
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,680
I mean, I'm, I'm not going to
make a judgement wholly on your

372
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,000
age, but I, I feel like we grew
up in a very similar time

373
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,280
because these are my memories as
well.

374
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,280
But we do.
Too, which is awesome.

375
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,920
Yeah, it's good.
There are always challenges.

376
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,040
I I think there's a certain
element of retro as well that

377
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,360
people are heading back towards
that.

378
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,840
I, I hear that latest Gen.
Z are actually seeking out kind

379
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,240
of like landline phones again
because they kind of want to get

380
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,880
disconnected.
So it's, it's interesting.

381
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,840
It goes full, full circle, yeah.
I love their brains on the way

382
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,720
that they think and the way
they're changing the work

383
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,800
culture as well.
You know, we're having a

384
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,200
conversation recently about like
Gen.

385
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,800
Z, they're saying like Gen.
Z didn't want to work.

386
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:40,000
Well, that's not the case.
They work differently.

387
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,160
So we're not used to, you know,
working the 9:00 to 5:00, which

388
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,240
is an archaic, outdated process
anyways.

389
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,560
So it's really cool to to tap
into their brains and their

390
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,920
minds and see how they're going
to, they're going to change the

391
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,600
game for sure.
Yeah, I think so.

392
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,080
I mean there's they are a
different approach.

393
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,320
They have a different approach,
I think to they're almost more

394
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,960
demanding of kind of excellence
almost to some degree, right.

395
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,960
It's kind of like the boundaries
that we should have set and

396
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,880
expectations we should have set.
We didn't do so they're doing

397
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,120
it.
Yeah, a little bit like we, we

398
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,440
can't get it, you know, in the
same way why we built first is

399
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,040
because it's kind of like the
the, the market is.

400
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:26,080
You wouldn't, you couldn't put
an old learning platform to the

401
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,480
Gen.
Z audience because they just

402
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,840
simply wouldn't accept it.
It would be the more demanding

403
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,000
of what the quality of
everything that gets delivered

404
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,960
to them, the quality of the
businesses they interoperate

405
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,080
with, you know, in terms of like
the sustainability, all the

406
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,680
pledges, all the kind of the B
Corp elements, all these, these

407
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,920
parts.
They've got more demands and

408
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,640
expectations on it, which I
think is is only a good thing

409
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,640
realistically.
So it drives everybody forward.

410
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,760
Absolutely.
So what are you excited about

411
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,240
for the future?
Like the future of learning and

412
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,160
development, Like with all this
AI stuff coming in, what are you

413
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,800
excited about?
So we're trying to go to this

414
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,000
kind of the same ground, but
kind of like, but my, my

415
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,920
thoughts is about what we can do
faster and what we can

416
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,920
understand that we either a
couldn't understand before or B

417
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,360
took too long to understand.
So a a great example is the data

418
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,200
analysis part of L&D.
You know, historically we talked

419
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,000
about SCORM, SCORM one point
whatever 1 and 1.1 and 1.2,

420
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,280
etcetera was all focused on did
you complete it?

421
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,560
And if so, did you pass and
maybe it stretched?

422
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,240
How long did it take?
And we brought in, you know, so

423
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,200
many other metrics that you
could do with objectives and

424
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,120
everything else, but it was, it
was almost too difficult to set

425
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,120
up and interpret.
And now you've got a scenario

426
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,080
where you can track every single
data point, you know, every kind

427
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040
of eyeball click, movement,
etcetera.

428
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,240
And you can establish patterns
and pathways and data points on

429
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,240
that and that can inform the the
strategy.

430
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,440
So I mean a really simple level
and this is, this is nowhere

431
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,320
near as far as it is going and
can go and can go.

432
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,960
But we are spotting gaps in
content that's not available for

433
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,760
certain skills that people are
seeking in the business because

434
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,080
they've we're using all the data
points about what they're

435
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,880
searching and what skills they
have versus how many users we

436
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,680
have.
And we can map that back to

437
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,000
saying, well, the content is not
matching the requirements there.

438
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760
That was even that sounding
simplistic was relatively

439
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,520
difficult to do previously
because you had to have so much

440
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,160
data and sort of transpose that.
And now it's just in systems,

441
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,520
it's in platforms to do that.
And that's exciting to me all

442
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,120
the time.
What else can we discover that

443
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:40,120
we didn't discover?
And I'm also a weird advocate,

444
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,000
sort of leaning away from the AI
side a second.

445
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,920
I'm a weird advocate of how
marketing can be used really

446
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,400
well psychologically to kind of
engage you on the L&D side as

447
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,560
well.
And we've talked about this

448
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,680
before on, on one of the
presentations I've previously

449
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,120
done, but it was around you can
build scarcity, you can do FOMO,

450
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,840
you can do these elements of are
really popular in things like

451
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,000
social media.
They really draw you in, they

452
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,760
draw you back and you open up
the app every day.

453
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,680
You want to see what's happening
and they work across the board.

454
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,720
It doesn't really matter that
it's L&D, but I think we're just

455
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,120
getting smarter with how to
engage and, and build that kind

456
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,120
of interaction with our learners
that I don't think we had

457
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:21,080
before.
So these things are where I like

458
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,400
how we're heading and where
we're going to.

459
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,280
Yeah, me too.
And I think that anybody that's

460
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,880
thinking about getting an L&D or
thinking about getting into

461
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760
marketing or whatever they're
trying to do, you need to take a

462
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,640
psychology course for sure.
And kind of learned some of

463
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,320
those tactics.
Like, I didn't realize how much

464
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,080
psychology is, is an L&D and is
a marked mean, like you said,

465
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320
the FOMO stuff.
And you're really getting deep

466
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,600
into the psyche of like, you
know, why do people sit on

467
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,920
TikTok like myself at bed and
scroll for hours and hours a

468
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,360
night?
What's what's there?

469
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,200
What's doing that?
That's like become an addiction,

470
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,640
you know, just coming.
Back I've got a really simple

471
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,320
kind of example that kind of
there's a real world example

472
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,480
which it shows how, how well
this works and then how you can

473
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,720
apply that to L&D, which is we
always want to be kind of herd

474
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,040
mentalities as humans.
That's kind of how we operate.

475
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,720
And the hotels, we've found it
more successful if they want to

476
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,320
save on the amount of laundry
they're doing on the, on the

477
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,320
towel washing, they'll put a
sign in the, in the bedroom to

478
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,240
say, you know, to tell people to
do that.

479
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,880
But they would have more success
if they would put a statistic on

480
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,400
there that says, join your other
fellow guests and 70% of them

481
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,880
reuse their towel or whatever
the status.

482
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,720
And basically it, it makes
everybody else think, oh, if

483
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,080
everybody else is doing it, I'm
doing it.

484
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,840
And then suddenly you get better
uptake of it.

485
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,000
Now it incredible.
It's really simple.

486
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,200
Just the messaging on the sign
changes that behaviour.

487
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,720
If you apply that to L&D, you
could have that.

488
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,040
At Disney, Fred, they do that at
Disney.

489
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,240
This is there you go the Disney
conversation.

490
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,200
We'll not go on Disney.
We'll we'll be brunching off in

491
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,720
Disney conversations and then
we'll come back.

492
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,720
But at the L&D side, I mean, if
you want them to your learners

493
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,360
to do a certain course and then
follow up with a second course,

494
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:03,480
for instance, you can say, well,
70% of the people who've

495
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,440
completed this course go on to
do this course or take the skill

496
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,240
next or whatever.
And just that simple nudge and,

497
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,480
and wording can change the
engagement and how they're kind

498
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,920
of appeal towards it can just
just completely switches.

499
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,960
So I love it.
I think it's great if we get

500
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,080
really small with this.
I think we can have much more

501
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,760
engagement impact, which is
number one challenge all day,

502
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,040
every day in L&D, everywhere,
everyone you speak to 1. 100% So

503
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,480
there's a lot of people in our
audience who are transitioning

504
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,480
into different roles or we have
a lot of transitioning teachers,

505
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,520
L&D professionals.
You've, you've, you've done tons

506
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280
of stuff.
You're, you're successful in

507
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,520
more ways than, than I can say
or words that I have for.

508
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,520
So for people who are listening,
what are like 3 pieces of advice

509
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,680
you could give to them?
If they're maybe looking to be

510
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,320
an entrepreneur, they're maybe
looking to get L&D into L&D,

511
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,320
what should they do?
It's a great question.

512
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,120
I'm going to going to start with
saying the American attitude is

513
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:04,640
always a little bit more
embellished with the idea of

514
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,800
shouting about your own kind of
achievements and things.

515
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,040
And I find it difficult enough
to call myself an entrepreneur,

516
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,120
never mind a Syrian or
entrepreneur for quite a while.

517
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,800
But that's the British way.
We're going a bit more reserved

518
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,160
in that respect.
We should shake more.

519
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,240
We should, definitely should.
But yeah, we have done quite a

520
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,680
while, done quite a bit.
I tell you what, my kind of kind

521
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,320
of key things from the founder
side, I think that were the most

522
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:35,000
surprising 1 is probably the
risk of starting something that

523
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,040
is even like your own business
or even a jump to a different

524
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,120
role is generally a lot lower
than you think it is.

525
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,920
And it, it feels scarier because
there's a, a, you know, mortgage

526
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,120
sort of loan, you know, money on
the line.

527
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,800
But the, a lot of people who are
doing this are generally the

528
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,320
people who are very skilled and
skilled already and know the

529
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,720
likeliness of what, what their
ability is and, you know, where

530
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,360
they can apply it.
And ultimately, if it doesn't

531
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,280
work, in many cases you can, you
can get back into another job

532
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,400
and another role again quite
fast in many cases because then

533
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,440
you're a skilled professional.
So I, I found that it, there's

534
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,680
not as many people who want to
take the risk that I take to go

535
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:13,960
and start the businesses I've
done.

536
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,280
But I think if you kind of frame
it differently, I think it

537
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,320
becomes less of a challenge to
do So I think you can think,

538
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,520
well, worst case, we can run
this for three months, six

539
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,440
months and it doesn't work.
We go get that job again, we

540
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,200
will be able to get a job.
We're pretty confident of that.

541
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,160
We've moved.
We've done so successfully so

542
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,560
far.
So removing that fear I think is

543
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,080
1 huge fear there.
For people.

544
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,640
Really, really hard and I get it
because it, you know, that's

545
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,680
ultimately why you don't have
everybody being, having their

546
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,800
own company and doing it.
And it wouldn't work if

547
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,000
everybody did as well because,
you know, there'd just be lots

548
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,800
of companies with one, one
person in them.

549
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,360
But equally, that's why I think
it's a good stepping stone.

550
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,400
And that can apply even if
you're not starting a company

551
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960
and you're just moving a job,
whatever or you start a new

552
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,200
career.
I think it's a similar sort of

553
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,840
thing.
The risk I don't think is as big

554
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,800
as what you perceive it to be.
Secondly, I would just probably

555
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,480
say you you have got to probably
genuinely spend the time outside

556
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,800
of your day-to-day a little bit
extra time to explore.

557
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,320
And it can be anything.
It can be take that course on

558
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,920
Udemy or it can be, you know,
just sign up to that that event

559
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,680
and go and attend it or it can
be read about a new project.

560
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,840
I mean you could just start some
new software and start trying to

561
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,520
use that.
I think if you just explore it,

562
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,480
you learn a lot more, a lot
quicker about what's possible.

563
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,200
And this is feedback into the AI
conversation.

564
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,520
You're not going to get there
without actually just typing

565
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,560
things in and seeing what it
does in many regards.

566
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,280
And then lastly, I think on my
experience has always been, and

567
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,600
this is very kind of founder
focused kind of knowledge, but

568
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,000
just aim at trusting people and
employing people or having, you

569
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,040
know, people in your business
who are better than you, who

570
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,800
can.
Don't be afraid of being the the

571
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,400
worst one in the room, the guys
who and girls that you've got

572
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,600
who can be better at it because
as long as you get their

573
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,680
incentives right and the reasons
why they're doing it, the whole

574
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,080
business and everything you're
doing.

575
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,760
And again, this is just me as a
founder book applies in

576
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,400
everything else.
It's I wouldn't be afraid of the

577
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
people who are smarter and I
would trust the people and just

578
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,200
if you get everybody's sort of
direction kind of aligned, you

579
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,280
can you achieve so much more
with the right people.

580
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,520
So yeah, it's nice kind of
tidbits.

581
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,360
I think of the founder
experience.

582
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,240
Yeah, that that goes beyond
founder mentality as well as

583
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,600
like you're eliminating the
fear, making sure you're

584
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,040
professionally developing or
learning and exploring more,

585
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,720
researching.
That's something that we should

586
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,680
be doing naturally.
And then, you know, hire people

587
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,520
smarter than you.
Yeah, trust them.

588
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Trust them to do the job.
Like, trust them and give them

589
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,840
the tools and the support they
need to do the job.

590
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,760
So absolutely, those are three
very great pieces of advice.

591
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,440
Yeah.
One of my first kind of

592
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,920
realizations of this, and again,
this is going back probably 20

593
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,640
years or so, but was kind of our
first employee that we had at

594
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,400
the business.
And I was used to being a

595
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,480
freelance developer basically.
So I was worked for hire.

596
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,040
I was paid per per hour, which
always changes your mentality,

597
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,520
by the way.
I would, I would advise a lot of

598
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,240
people if they could work per
hour for the money they work.

599
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,000
It changes how you perceive your
working time and you, you

600
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,720
deliver things differently.
It's very strange, but I went

601
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:23,120
away on vacation and, and we
were still developing pieces and

602
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,920
shipping that to our customers
and raising invoices and

603
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,160
receiving money in.
And I thought, hang on, this is

604
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,080
fantastic.
I'd only been used to knowing

605
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,840
what I knew and what I could do.
And then suddenly you trust the

606
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,400
people and you can go away and
say, well, I think we'll deliver

607
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,680
that.
And you suddenly realise there's

608
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,840
a lot more scope to, to do a lot
more with, you know, by just

609
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,400
just kind of getting the right
people in place.

610
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,640
So that was one of my first
realisations of it.

611
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,280
And that helped me kind of
perceive and take the risk

612
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,680
because evidence is a risk
realistically, but especially so

613
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,920
when you're in hiring, in
business, it's there's a lot of

614
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,920
people's lives on the line that
you will look after and try and

615
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920
pay for.
So yeah, I think that's always

616
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,400
pushed me forward though to take
the risk because you kind of

617
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,160
know if you get the right people
and kind of kind of incentivize

618
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,920
and right, then you can get some
great, great work and kind of

619
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,720
like and enjoy.
A lot as a founder, you can kind

620
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,080
of see things in the future if
you put the right pieces into

621
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,720
place.
Yeah, I think so.

622
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,880
There's a little bit about, I
think everything is a risk, sort

623
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,680
of every decision you make, I
think.

624
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,760
Nothing's a guarantee.
Nothing's a guarantee, but I, I

625
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160
think if it's like that building
block approach, if you kind of

626
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,360
come at it with, well, that kind
of makes sense and we'll do that

627
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,440
and that makes sense.
You'll look back in a few years

628
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,200
and sort of everything will have
been based upon not one

629
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,560
decision.
It'll be based upon the

630
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,440
combination of the, the hundreds
you've made.

631
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,800
So you can't really get too
concerned if one's wrong, as

632
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,320
long as you're doing kind of the
right things generally.

633
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,520
Absolutely, Fred.
We had so much fun.

634
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,960
We're at the end of the episode
now.

635
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,000
So fast.
Yeah, it it goes, it does go

636
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,360
really fast when you're having
fun.

637
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,480
So tell people where they can
find you.

638
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,880
We're obviously going to include
everything in the show notes

639
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,120
about thirst, about you, where
to connect.

640
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,280
So tell us where we can find
you.

641
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,200
What's the best way for people
to connect with you or learn

642
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,640
more about thirst?
Yeah, no problem.

643
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Generally, LinkedIn is always
the place where we put a point.

644
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,720
Somebody too, now, doesn't it?
But so I'm on LinkedIn.

645
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,520
Fred Thompson You should be able
to find a relatively simple URL,

646
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,520
but we'll post it in the show
notes and then first is first

647
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,160
dot IO as well if you want to
find out more about the the

648
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,920
platform that we produce.
Fantastic.

649
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,000
Well, thank you so much for
coming on the show.

650
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,320
Really appreciated to hear your
perspective and I love the

651
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,960
reference you made to the
American culture about how we

652
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,360
boast about our.
I'm one of the more reserved

653
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,400
ones.
I don't boast about it.

654
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,720
I feel very like weird when
people say like you're.

655
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,400
An.
Influencer you're this, you're

656
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:41,760
that.
And I'm like, no, I'm not.

657
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,960
I'm just a person.
I love it.

658
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,600
I just wish kind of, you know,
as a, as a nationality, as a

659
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,160
nation, we would embrace it a
little bit more.

660
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:48,720
We're not too.
Good.

661
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,960
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

662
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Well, we'll see what happens in
the future.

663
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,040
So thank you so much.
And I can't wait for people to

664
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,720
hear this episode.
Thanks for spending a few

665
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,040
minutes with Holly.
She knows your podcast queue is

666
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,720
packed.
If today's episode sparked an

667
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,920
idea or gave you that extra
nudge of confidence, tap, follow

668
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,600
or subscribe in your favorite
app so you never miss an episode

669
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,880
of Ed Up L&D.
Dropping a quick rating or

670
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,360
review helps more educators and
learning pros discover the show,

671
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,320
too.
Want to keep the conversation

672
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640
going?
Connect with Holly on LinkedIn

673
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,200
and share your biggest take
away.

674
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,760
She reads every message.
Until next time, keep learning,

675
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,400
keep leading, and keep believing
in your own story.

676
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,560
Talk soon.
Hi, we're Ice Spring, an

677
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,480
international team of e-learning
enthusiasts who help more than

678
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60,000 clients across the globe
succeed with better online

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learning.
Our two flagship solutions are

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Ice Spring Suite and Ice Spring
Learn LMS.

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00:32:48,560 --> 00:33:00,920
Ice Spring Suite is an intuitive
all in We'd be happy to get to

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know you and pick a solution
that fits your needs best.

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00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,720
Go to www.icepringsolutions.com
to learn more about us and

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connect.