80: Instructional Design Insights from a True IDOL, Dr. Robin Sargent, CEO, Founder, and President of IDOL Courses & IDOL Courses Academy

0:01 Hello, my name is Holly Owens and welcome to Ed up edtech the podcast that keeps you. In the know about all the latest edtech happenings. We interview guests from around the globe to give you deeper insights into the Ed tech industry, the field of instructional design, and more, we're proudly a part of America's leading podcast Network the Ed up, experience. It's time to sit back and enjoy. Enjoy the latest episode of Ed up attack.

0:41 Here's what's coming up on this episode. Even the guy that hired me or I guess he was my boss. He said I almost didn't hire you a bring you in here Robin because your resume was 12 forking pages long and we are the first and only fate authorized vocational school for the Learning and Development industry in to design instruction. You can learn it just like you can learn to read to write to You can learn how to design a course. I feel like covid propelled ID and to the Forefront it's like oh, what is this? Very unique sounding role in? What do these people do? Here's what's coming up on this episode.

1:29 Even the guy that hired me or I guess he was my boss. He said I almost didn't hire you a bring you in here Robin because your resume was too. 12 forking pages long. We are the first and only fate authorized vocational school for the Learning and Development industry to design instruction, you can learn it just like you can learn to read to write to draw. You can learn how to design a course. I feel like covid propelled ID and to the Forefront it's like oh what is this very unique sounding role in what do these people do? Hello, everyone, and welcome to another amazing episode of Ed up. Ed Tech, my name is Holly Owens, and I'm your host. And today, I can't contain my excitement, because our schedules finally aligned, and I have dr. Robbins Sergeant, who is the founder and CEO of idle courses, and the president of idol Academy on the show Robin, you're here.

2:38 Welcome. I'm here timing is divine. I think it's just the right time and right place for us to connect and I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk to you. I have so many different questions. But first, we want to know more about you. Tell us about your journey. How did you come to get to idle courses? Tell us how you got into this education, instructional design space. Well, I'll try to keep my story short, but basically, I kind of zoomed around in very unrelated topics. I got a Bachelor's in Bible and theology with a minor in biblical languages and philosophy. And then I went because I couldn't get a job, I went right back to the same school and got a master's degree in the same darn thing.

3:23 So I got a master's degree in biblical and Theological Studies, by the time I was done I was throwing My Greek lexicons in the trash, I was so over it. And I had applied to PHD programs in religion, but by the time I was done with my masses, even though I got accepted, I was like, here I am just all I know is Bible and Theology and I just am not interested in it anymore and I'm not interested in just being in the Ivory Tower, going from Bachelors to Masters to PhD with no real. Experience under my belt. And so I ventured out into the world. And I found my first job was as a assistant librarian at Shorty University and love that, love working, the university, even when I was doing my masters and Bachelors, I was always a teacher's assistant or a graduate research assistant. And so, a part-time Library things. Sound like a great place to be.

4:23 And one day I was at The copier and the dean of students said, hey Robin, you know about anybody with a master's degree that Interested in becoming an academic advisor. I said, oh, that's me, I'm interested in that. I have a master's, not really related but I am absolutely interested in being an academic advisor and so just fast forward. I became the assistant dean of students by the age of 26 and it was assistant dean of students for the adult professional studies program. I loved it. I was there to help the adults who were continuing in their education Journey. Getting Associate's degrees and bachelor's degrees, and master's degrees at Shorter University. My got to guide them in their careers, help them with enrollment and all.

5:10 During this time as the assistant dean of students, they decided that the professional studies program, that part of the University was going to be the first ones to start building their program online. And so that was probably in 2010 and 2011. And if anyone is familiar with faculty and staff at the City. You probably know that a lot of them are luddites and that they are. That's a great her there. That's a great word technology scared of it. They're not their first ones to raise their hands. And in fact, they need a lot of side-by-side help on any type of technology and so me, I've always loved it. I've always loved tect, I've always loved technology, they're like toys to me.

5:55 So it just came about that. I became the online program manager and was in charge of helping facilitate moving on ground instruction into an online delivery format. Since I was the techie one at the college, then that meant that I also became the implementer and built out the entire learning management system. And because I was the assistant dean of students and also the one who built it, I also became the academic advisor for those online. Students? Oh my gosh, I just loved it like, yeah, it's great. You had all these different roles across different departments. It's I loved it. I was like, what is this job? And then of course, you figure out, oh, it's called instructional design.

6:37 Its online learning. And I said, this is where I want to be. I want to just do this full-time also. Because when you're the online program manager at a university, you also run into a lot of walls and bureaucracy and red tape. And here I am. Loving technology and tools and learning experiences and I'm like, and we could do this and we could do that. And they're like, oh we're gonna have to get it approved through all these different channels and then I find out you can go to corporate and you can get all the tools and all the tech and you can just build instruction non-stop, right? I mean, obviously, you're solving problems, yada yada yada. But like, really, that was the driving motivation for me is, like, I want to build build build and then also, the thing was, I found out that you could double your income, just right out the gate.

7:26 And so, I did everything I could to transition to Corporate instructional design. And man, there was nothing to help me back then and yeah, I know, right? Yeah, they're just nothing. I found Christy Tucker's blog because that was available back. Then articulate storyline was still new it to user interface was still in power point. It was like just moving into being its own software Up application and so those are my resources so it took me about nine months and I finally I'd say convince somebody. Convince somebody to give me a chance and I'll, and my first job at a digital marketing agency called Silver pop and then it's been turned over. Its now, it was an IBM company announced its own thing, but whatever.

8:14 And so that was my first corporate instructional design job. I just grew from there. I went from that job to another job and then I was a director in the corporate instructional design field in less than three years. I love your story higher education than into corporate the same time, you were transitioning into corporate instructional design. I was going from educator to higher, ed ID and there were no resources. Like you said, you hadn't. You just had to figure your way through on what to do. I mean I had the education background obviously, but it was definitely a steep learning curve. Oh yeah, I was trying to apply with a curriculum vitae. Like a CV instead of a resume. In the guy that hired me or I guess he was my boss. He said I almost didn't hire you a bring you in here Robin because your resume was 12 forking pages long and well, I'm glad he did.

9:09 So you have to story to tell now what a great journey for you. Do you have any particular like education and related quotes that are your favorites that you could share with the audience that you go to your fur back to like as you're going through these different types of Journeys in? Your professional career. I have one that I just pair it all the time. Now I feel like my students probably think it's my quote instead of dr. David meros because I just say it all the time. And that is information is not instruction. It's a quote that summarizes. Basically, what my core passion is in the arena of Education or Learning and Development and that is deliberate practice and instruction that centers around problems. And complex tasks love it.

10:02 That's a great quote to, that's, that's a good one, because I feel like sometimes, especially in the corporate space, we're handed power points. And that's the info. And they're like, turn this into eLearning and we're like we need a little bit more than this. This isn't just going to be fabulous. You you know, you really have to think about how you're going to assess the Learners, all the different things and I wouldn't let higher education. Off the hook either. I was also a lead instructional designer for Southern New Hampshire University, and it's it also applies to higher ed as well. They'll hand you a textbook and say, you know, subject matter. Expert in, here we go. Like, let's just make a course in the a lot of it is information-driven.

10:48 Ya know, that you've been on Luke's show and you've chatted with Lou cops and quite a bit so you have thats new connection. Yeah, that's awesome. After you I actually didn't know. We were working for them because I was a freelancer. And so I was what they called their lead Network instructional designer so he was working on the campus. So I never actually got to know that he was there until afterwards. Oh wow, interesting. So it is a very small word. So tell us about idle courses and the idol Academy. All the things that you're doing here and what you're offering, Offering to people is honestly, it's amazing.

11:32 I don't know how you do everything that you do and all the resources, you put out, but we want to hear all about it and just tell us all the things. My first job in the corporate, as an instructional designer, I found out from my team member that, oh, you can, you could be a freelancer on the side and she introduced me and opened up the world of instructional design freelancing in Seoul from my very first job. I also was side hustling and doing learning designs for other companies. Other agencies snoo, for example, and I knew That at some point in my journey, I wanted to run my own business. And then I actually met someone who was running an instructional design and and training development business and it just opened my eyes and I said oh I didn't know you could make a business out of that great.

12:31 I just I could be solopreneur freelancer and so from there on I just built up a ramp of clients to exit my director. All in Learning and Development. Because like I said, I wanted to run a business. I got an MBA when I was the assistant dean of students and I just knew that if I was going to run a business, it had to be something that I was passionate about. And I mean, instructional design has, obviously, check that box. That's what I got my PhD in finally, and then what I decided to start my business in and as I was starting my business, I was hiring subcontractors and I was finding that I was having To train my subcontractors, and I was having to train them in instructional design, and visual design, and animation principles.

13:20 And I was having to help them unlearn some bad habits. And so, it came about that here, I am supporting all of these subcontractors to get the type of Workforce that I need to support my own clients at the time. Idol courses was an agency and so I started supporting just for free online in a Facebook group and and then I realized well if I really want to capture the type of people that I want to work in train them up, it would serve both things. Like, yes people could come and learn from and they could go out on their own. But I could also find the type of people that I need to run my agency.

14:01 And it's just so funny how those things work out now. I mean, it's an authorized trade school and all that we are really is focused. The on those Learners that want to land their first second or upskill and instructional design. And so at this point, it's very different from where it started. I definitely changed my focus from trying to train up people to work in my agency to now we're a trade school and then I'm training them up to work as contractors for Idol Talent, the student and that learner, which is the people that comment Idol courses camp. He is all that I focus on and think about at this point from end-to-end. What is their Journey?

14:46 What are all the places that are friction points for them and how can we remove some of that friction? And so just thinking like that obsessively our entire team, I think that has really been, what has built such an incredible school and program and really like unparalleled success for our students. Yeah, and I imagine that you have a lot of Training teachers in your programs that are looking to get into instructional design, I would say, probably if I just can't go Lea, look at the numbers. And, you know, just kind of what I see coming the door. I would say at least 80% of the people that enroll in our school are transitioning, teachers, the other 20%, they come from everywhere. And I also include teachers, I don't just include secondary, I also include higher education, professors. Right?

15:40 Right, and staff. I would include that in that 80%. Some of the gripes, if you will are pretty similar on both sides, as far as why, they'd want to make that career transition, the other 20% graphic designers, Healthcare veterinarians, no joke. Yeah, musicians audio Engineers, the list goes on. That's so cool. I love it. I feel like covid propelled ID and to the Forefront. It's like, oh, what is this? Our unique sounding role in, what do these people do? I feel like before we were kind of just people didn't understand, you know, having conversations with with my family or my friends about what I do, they think I design websites and I'm like, no that's not what I do. So I really love that that a lot of people from different Industries are recognizing and seeing the value of an ID roll. It's amazing.

16:35 Yeah, I've even had people coming to the program, they didn't even have a bachelor's degree. They were Valet and now they have worked for some very large companies, as an instructional designer for me. And I think this might rub people the wrong way, but for me, I think that learning to design instruction. You can learn it just like you can learn to read to write to draw. You can learn how to design a course. Weiss prep, revolutionizes studying to empower and enable students full potential. Did you know, that 56 percent of college students who start a four-year degree still drop out at team-wise prep that is not okay. We're revolutionizing studying with a variety of products here to support you.

17:28 We offer a personalized course And campus specific learning experience in our study past subscription so that you can log in and have notes, mini video. Lectures tips, tricks and practice, questions for all your toughest freshman and sophomore courses. So that you will be most prepared for those tough exams and tests that can either open doors to the your future or close them. We want to see all doors Open for you here at WISE prep.

18:08 I think that's very well said and I agree with you 100%. So for the audience that may not be aware, which if you were not aware of, I could all courses and Robin. I don't know where you've been. Tell us some of the unique things that you do it with these experiences. Yeah. So the first thing I would say that we are the first and only state authorized vocational school for the Learning and Development industry. What makes that incredibly unique is that up until we became a trade school? You Only get any types of credentials in instructional design through a master's degree, a master's certificate, or a PhD. And the fact that we have been authorized as a vocational school now, says that instructional design is a trade that can be learned through Hands-On learning through all practicum. And yes, of course, you learn the theories and the models, and all the foundational principles of instructional design. But the focus for a trade school, Cool. Is practical experience.

19:12 Deliberate practice. And then in addition, the other things that make us unique is that our other guiding principles are social learning and learner experience design. What that means is that we have a culture of support. We are obsessed with our people. We have communities, we have ongoing mentorship, you get lifetime access unlimited coach feedback on every single, Thing that you want to submit to him as many times as you want to submit it to them. Yeah, it never goes away. And then also, we have 32 outside guest experts that come in speak to our alumni and our current students every single year.

19:54 And so, as you can imagine, we started Idol courses Academy in July of 2019. And so that library of guest expert, workshops has just grown to. Yeah, I could imagine the list to you. Have, yeah, yeah, it's pretty insane fact that we offer access to tools, like, beyond all the templates that you could need. We offer access to all the assets, you would need to build courses, like stock assets, stock video assets, icon packs, and on and on through and bottle elements, you get access to several different subscriptions that we have. And so that also something that's pretty unique about us.

20:35 And then we also only hire for our Tracked, roles in Idol Talent, Idol, courses, Academy members, which means that people get paid experience opportunities, right through our own school. And then beyond that, there are many different credentials that are offered through our program. It's a certificate from an authorized school plus other digital credentials or badges. If you will. I mean, the list goes on about what makes us unique and I will see, I see your badges all the time flowing on LinkedIn, like there. Are the I see them at least once a day at least at the very least. Well I know you're probably ask this question.

21:16 Yeah later, but I definitely see. I think the trend has started a while back and that is that people are starting to realize that you can Propel your career forward and change careers through certifications and badges and other credentials that outside of Getting a four-year degree, two year, master's degree or a PhD and you can do this by demonstrating your skills, very specific skills because companies are more interested and what you can demonstrate of your skills then they are that you can write a paper in a grad program, right more and more.

22:00 The recruiting and applicant tracking systems are starting to actually connect to the backend of places like credly. E and Badger and these digital credential platforms to search specifically for people that have proven skills in the things that they are looking for. Because they find that those people are more ready to work. Oh my gosh, I love everything you're saying, just take that you have on it and like when you're talking about the Ivory Tower of like getting your bachelor's or Master's, I feel like I realized that too late in life that I did need to continue to do my education because we were in Academia. So it's always about the next credential. That's what the people respect, better, that's what the institution wants.

22:43 But really to me, and especially like what you're seeing in the courses that I teach and will that I talked to, it's about that. Real-world Hands-On application of the skills and the knowledge. 100%. Yeah, learning is doing. I think we will all agree on that and I mean that very literally. Yeah, yeah, really it's that simple learning is doing. We could definitely continue this conversation for a really long time and I can go different places, but I want to know what's coming up for you. You've done so much in a very short amount of time was idle courses and Idol Academy. It's coming up for you in the next year. Got anything, big things planned that you can share with the audience? Oh yeah, I do actually saw last year my my book came out, the do it.

23:31 Messy approach, a step by step guide for instructional design, and online learning developers. And that is literally a formula that people can use over and over again to design their course, Blueprints and a walk you through the entire thing. That book called my book baby. I came up with the idea in December and I Released it to the public of October last year and what that was was a culmination of all the things that I have learned from teaching people how to become instructional designers in e-learning developers. Because our field is complex and there are so many. Absolutely, you could say that again, so many times and students, they are so many questions and the answers, are it depends, it depends. It depends, it depends, but what I found. Found was a real struggle for students. And what I really wanted to do to make it clear for them is the actual design of the course like the writing of the instruction. And if you start with abstract Design Concepts like learning objectives, then that means that you are putting information at the center instead of the problem or the task, I wrote the book.

24:51 You take them through exactly how to design instruction step by step. What's that whole problem that has to be solved right out a full demonstration, right out the full application that shows that somebody can solve the whole problem. And then work backwards, what is the series of problems that they can solve that lead up to them, being able to solve the whole problem. Anyway, the point is, I wrote this book and I have also. Now looking at the idol courses Academy, And because it's been built on learner experience design. That means that everything has been very iterative. I started out, of course, the Cameo as a beta. I mean, it was beta beta drain. That was whipping it up as the students were show me what they needed to learn and it was all just in time. And after a couple of years, just like I said, you know, the 32 Guess workshops a year and all the just-in-time training and the constant evolution of the Academy has brought us to a place where it's time for a brand, new Academy 3.0 is what I'm calling it.

25:58 And this bad boy is the thing that practices what we preach. So right now the idol courses Academy includes on a videos, a ton of templates and all those other kinds of things but it doesn't include the interactive e-learning and the gamification that I'm obsessed with. I actually wrote my PhD on gamification and Corporate settings. And so Academy 3.0 is being built right now and it is a fully interactive step-by-step gamified version of our trade school based on the years of learner input and experience that we have specifically teaching instructional designers and e-learning developers and it should be coming out by the September cohort of this year and I cannot wait, I am just my gosh, I'm so excited. A way to like just show sneak peeks of it. The main content is built in Jeannie lie, which is a phenomenal platform that just makes some really slick very interactive, really cool things that you can do in it. And then it'll be built on a gamified platform. So that every action that a learner needs to take their gaining points, they are getting surprises, Easter eggs are popping up.

27:17 There are badges that are being released at certain points. It's there is extra content with deadlines put on it, if they do extra credit and I can't wait. I can't wait either. I can't wait to see some of the previous. It's like when you're anticipating a brand new movie that you really, really want to see. And you just want to see the trailer. Yeah. Just want to get a piece of it. Love it. Oh my gosh. Robin, you're doing amazing stuff up. I can't tell you and I know that the people that go through your Academy and your courses and everything, they appreciate all the things that you do for them. And there's thousands, there's got to be thousands of people who've been positively impacted by all the you do. I hear it from them and it has just completely changed my life to be able to find the Learners that I get to serve, like, with joy every morning and it really is a unique and special position to be in.

28:13 And, of course, I couldn't do it without all of the mentors and all of the coaches. I mean, when I started, it was just me. But at this point, it's like the vision really has become a collective thing. It is all of us working together and getting lit up. By serving our next generation of Creative Learning designers. Absolutely. All right, so we've come to the final stages of the episode and obviously this is not going to be the last time we checked because there's so much more to talk about. I have two final questions. Really is 3. Did we miss anything? Is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience? And then I want to know from you.

28:54 What does the future of Education look like in the space anything that we missed? Is that why you didn't get the share and then what's the future? Well, I didn't, I don't know that we missed anything unless you want me to go on and on about anything that we already have a follow-up episode, already in mind about entrepreneurship and starting your own business and growing it, and all those different things but I think that would be odd whole nother episode. I love it, I love business and I love learning. So I'm there for it does. Thank you both things change our life after boiling impactful. So for me the future of Education looks like a couple. Of different things. I think that it does look like trade schools. I think that there is a significant skills gap between what people are learning in school. And I mean, Traditional School like universities and colleges and then what they actually need to be able to do on the job. And so that is creating a significant skills gap between those two areas and so I see more and more programs and I've actually kind of seen a Bit of a come from higher ed. So Kudos on those that are weaving more practicums and more practical applications internships thinking about their curriculum, as how does this apply to them being able to solve real problems in the real world? And I see that as being part of the future of Education, you can even see it in one trick, which

30:24 is one of those accredited online MBA programs. But what does it do, right? It is the completely new that, that is like a trade school. I also see the future being enhanced by a lot of these artificial intelligence tools that are available to us. I think that it will help us as far as rapid development and the rapid development has to happen because of the significant changes in our technology that changes in the types of jobs that are out there. And so I see more deliberate Hands-On practice in education and being augmented by The technology and the tools that are available. Yeah, yes, I can't wait.

31:08 I'm so excited I can't wait for the future of all these things but Robin, thank you so much for coming on the show and chatting with me about all the wonderful things that you're doing and telling us about out of courses and Idol Academy. We can't wait to see what you do next. It's going to be awesome. I don't know when you sleep ma'am. So, thanks again. For your time. Thank you so much Holly. It's always a pleasure to come and speak with you and share with your audience. Yep, everything about idle courses and that of course has Canada. Me course is going to be in the show notes where to connect with Robin find all the wonderful things she doing so. Check it out there. You've been listening to another episode of Ed up edtech with your host, Holly Owens.

32:02 You can follow Holly on LinkedIn. You can also visit our website at Jolly Holly .me to find out more about what she's up to please head to Apple or wherever you download your podcast content and leave us a rating review and please subscribe to be notified of future episodes. This has been another incredible episode of Ed up, Ed Tech with your host. Leones.